Dinesh Lathi Addresses eBay Seller Meeting in Long Beach, CA

magisterrexOn February 13, 2009 at 11:28 am Said:

Twice a year disruption is an incredible improvement on eBay’s current IT policy of catch and release (and patch). Although I felt a twinge of positivity upon reading Dinesh Lathi’s letter, two thoughts immediately intruded upon my all-too-brief revelry: 1) Who are you and what have you done with Dinesh Lathi?; and 2) Didn’t Bill Cobb promise something very similar?

At this point actions will speak much louder than words and the good-faith bank account between sellers and eBay has dipped a little too far into the overdraft. But it has the potential of being a good first – albeit tiny – step in the right direction.

AnnOn February 13, 2009 at 11:46 am Said:

Give us some details about what was discussed. This is way too vague and will only stir up more questions and resentments among most sellers.

50 largest sellers on the West Coast is a very small subset and they have a very different viewpoint than 99.99% of your sellers which are smaller, mostly mom-and-pop operations or individuals.

What large companies (i.e. your 50 largest sellers) need is far different from your average seller. Give US information and tell US what you’re planning. Give US the ability to give input as we are your true customers.

I understand you want to cater to your large Platinum and Diamond Powersellers, but it is the smaller Bronze and Silver PowerSellers who are more representative of your customer base. And what about those struggling to get to PS status at all? Aren’t you concerned with their needs??

It seems all that eBay wants to hear these days is how “good” they are doing (which of course large companies that are suceeding will tell them), what big corporations want to join Operation Catalog and how they can get rid of the small individual sellers who made eBay great, but cause all the “noise”. How can eBay become more Amazon-like? (Amazon has already filled that niche. Stay in your own niche where you USED to rule and regain your tumbling status there instead of trying to be a wanna-be and failing miserably.)

We smaller sellers (PS and individuals both) need that same information too. And NDA’s and secrecy and only listening to Top Sellers is not a good way to gain your sellers’ trust which you are in very short supply on these days.

2008 was the most disasterous year in eBay’s history and it cannot be blamed on the economy. In a recession, a business like eBay should be booming. It is management mistakes like these that are ruining the site and the business for everyone, small and large sellers alike.

Please be open with us ALL and provide some “transparency” and “level playing fields” for EVERYONE, not just your elite few.

BobbyOn February 13, 2009 at 11:53 am Said:

“To answer a question that I suspect is on your mind: we are holding these meeting under NDA because we believe this helps keep the meetings a lively exchange of ideas and because people are more likely to tell us the unvarnished truth if they believe they are speaking speaking in confidence.”

Having been around the block more than once in the business world, this is the most disengenuos excuse for a non-disclore agreement that I have ever heard. Those sellers who attended this meeting have nothing to hide with voicing their opinions, but eBay does and has proved it time after time.

Once again, eBay’s upper tier management shows it doesn’t have a clue when it comes to correctly gauging the supposed gullibility of its rank and file sellers.

Just how much lower can the stock price go and to what stygian levels can upper management sink?

Nero fiddled while Rome burned, and eBay has more meetings (and plans useless changes) while it loses ground in the ecommerce game.

Larry PhillipsOn February 13, 2009 at 11:54 am Said:

Thank you Richard for posting Dinesh’s comments. Please allow me to share the following thoughts:

1. It’s my understanding that all sellers at this meeting had minimum monthly sales of $400K. While I recognize the importance of meeting with your largest customers, I hope future meetings will also include small sellers. As a Platinum Powerseller with several employees, I have a lot of skin in the game too, and I believe the opinions of people like me are equally important, because while we may individually be smaller, our collective presence is more significant than the handful of Diamonds you chose to met with.

2. I like the idea of changes only occurring twice yearly. Frankly your record for introducing bug-free changes has been less than optimal. I hope you will consider an even larger window than 60 days for certified developers and the technical community, so these changes can have a thorough Quality Assurance process. I am also concerned about the phrase “any product or policy change that will significantly disrupt a seller’s business”. I believe eBay’s ability to discern a “significant disruption” concerns me, and I hope you will obtain some outside assurances for determining significant disruptions.

3. Dinesh also said “We asked sellers for their partnership. True partnerships require give and take on both sides.” Sellers have been hearing this for years now. You need to walk the walk also, not just talk the talk. I have many specific comments about many aspects of the eBay business model, but this is not the time or place to share them, because frankly, I need to be convinced that I’m not talking to a brick wall. I hope people like me are called on to participate as you develop your strategic and tactical objectives.

I hope this is a true admission by eBay management that eBay needs to adjust the course rather than stay the course, so we can all succeed.

HenriettaOn February 13, 2009 at 12:29 pm Said:

@Jack @Ann

Get real!
eBay does not consider you a seller if you are below PS. Bronze PS are barely there, this is why they were excluded by ProPay initially. To eBay Silver or Gold PS are the small sellers.

This is a mend fences exercise with the only sellers who count, big listers.

TekGemsOn February 13, 2009 at 12:37 pm Said:

I think we (sellers) have been asking eBay to not roll out changes, especially Q4 for many years now. I’m glad eBay is FINALLY listening, but should it really take YEARS for eBay to listen? Let me see, I started selling on eBay 1999. Finally ten years later, eBay realizes this is an ongoing frustration with sellers and takes action. Faster responsiveness to complaints would make your customers happier.

10 year sellerOn February 13, 2009 at 1:06 pm Said:

I completely understand why the ebay of 2009 would value the opinions of Jack Sheng or Neel Grover more than mine (heck, I only do $300,000 GMV per year) but aren’t there alot more sellers at my level (and much smaller)-than at their level? Aren’t smaller retailers and sellers the fiscal core of ebay’s revenue?

Diamond-ish level sellers have the ability to adapt to ebay changes much easier than sellers at my level, that’s true. But aren’t smaller companies the ones that bring business to the site? Countless sellers like Larry Phillips made ebay the vibrant place it once was. I believe ebay still takes its true core ($) sellers for granted, even after the exodus of sellers and buyers in 2008…

If ebay becomes just another boring shopping portal for ordinary commodity items, revenue for ebay will continue to dwindle, as we saw in Q4. Ebay is going to hit a ceiling with SKU based product-AND in monetizing the site with corporate ad revenue. I worry that sellers like myself will have gone elsewhere before ebay realizes that.

Wishful ThinkerOn February 13, 2009 at 1:34 pm Said:

So once again the only things of substance that are reported are what eBay had already decided before they went in to the meeting anyway.

Nothing is said about any two way dialogue and, with the small gagged audience they invited, we may never know if any suggestions offered were ever more than listened to.

Seems the 80/20 nonsense is still ruling heads in the clouds over San Jose. They still don’t realise that no matter how many sellers they cast off or what size they are they will always get 80% of their listings from 20% of their sellers. If they don’t understand that soon then our sell thru rates will continue to plummet causing more and more sellers to reduce their use of the eBay sales channel and this dangerous, negative, death spiral that’s already started will pick up pace.

There are alternative international collectors sites out there now hosting 20 Million items for sale. There’s a ten year old eBay wannabe that has gone from 0.5m to 2.5m listings in the past year and there are no end of ex-powersellers launching venue marketplaces left right and center to try and cash in on the business eBay has left on the table over the past year. Knock knock!! Hello?

So what has eBay actually done to plug the leaks? Cutting thru the fine words and PR it looks like free extra pics across only four categories is the response. Wow! Is there really a serious, regular seller alive now that still pays eBay to host extra pictures?

As a previous comment rightly said eBay needs to start walking the walk fast and re-earn some credibility. We’ve known for ages they can talk fluent, meaningless buzz words all day long.

GaryOn February 13, 2009 at 1:42 pm Said:

FFFFFLLLUUUUUSHHHHHHH That’s the sound of the big Ol ebay toilet makes. Only going to distrupt my business TWICE a year? That so inspires my confidence in eBay.

Wake up and realize who YOUR customer is eBay. *HINT* it’s the one that pays your fees. I have an item on Amazon that I sell daily and I have not touched it in three years.

Q. What is the difference between eBay and the Girl Scouts?

A. One has adult leadership.

implogOn February 13, 2009 at 1:48 pm Said:

Richard:

Thanks for the report.

Can you find out how many of the “top sellers” who attended the Long Beach meeting list in the “Auction” format and how many list in the “Buy It Now” Format.

HarrietOn February 13, 2009 at 1:55 pm Said:

What has happened to the concept of a “level playing field”??

I guess that went into the garbage long, long ago.

50 people can hardly be a proper sampling of the true sellers on eBay. That would be 50 out of how many millions??

Doctor DealsOn February 13, 2009 at 2:09 pm Said:

Ann, Larry & Sun,

I agree with almost everything you say, so no need to reiterate it in a lengthy dissertation.

Suffice to say, Dinesh needs to get the ideas that were presented to this select group of a few Top Sellers out to the rest of the community so that EVERYONE can provide responses and suggestions, or at least know what is going on.

Because all this “Top Secret – Cloak and Dagger” stuff builds nothing but animosity and distrust between eBay management and the 99.99999999% of sellers all of this is being kept secret from. Sellers will all the same concerns and interest in the marketplace being a success.

That is NOT a way to build a “Partnership” or a give and take relationship that will help EVERYONE succeed on this marketplace. Until eBay realizes we are NOT a bunch of children that need information doled out to us when teacher feels it is appropriate and really are an intelligent group of BUSINESS PEOPLE, then eBay is destined to continue to fail at “Customer Relations” with the vast majority of sellers.

We are ALL in this boat together, and eBay needs to realize it is going to take a lot more than an handful of new Diamond PowerSellers to keep it from sinking.

Thank you,

DD

William J KozerskyOn February 13, 2009 at 2:32 pm Said:

Any changes to the site, our method of operation, our templates, or new policies should only be introduced once a year in the 1st Quarter. I just do not understand the fascination of ebay with 4th Quarter changes.

Why disrupt our business flow with changes leading up to, and during, the holiday season?

Even with 60 days notice, how could any serious business person consider changes during the 4th Quarter as reasonable?

GailOn February 13, 2009 at 3:45 pm Said:

“We will continue to roll out new products and changes to the buyer interface at any time, but we will limit to two release dates per year those changes that will disrupt our partners’ businesses.”

Excuse me? Just WHO at eBay will decide which changes are disruptive and which changes are not?

o.c.d.collectiblesOn February 14, 2009 at 10:08 pm Said:

Well, it sure was nice of Dinesh to inform us small sellers “after the fact” when all the rumors started flying. We were all re-living the last time ebay had a meeting with their top 100 sellers in DC, 2 years ago!!LOL! It’s no fun having to be on the outside looking in..

We all understand how important it is for ebay to keep these “big” commercial sellers..

As far as the rest of us peons ….I suppose ebay still wants us to go away..I mean, we are not even valuable enough to communicate with, via board announcements, correct?

That’s not a problem, mostly EVERY small seller I know (after 10 years many of us know each other), has set up in various other venues that are kinder to the seller’s sensibilities.Yes, they include everyone in their feedback about the sites..

And…the sellers can keep a higher percentage of their take on sales.. with lower fees, therefore, we can provide a better deal to the buyers by passing along the savings, and enjoying the relaxed social networking that is encouraged on the other sites.

It will only be a better shopping experience for the customers as well..buyers on ebay are annoyed with most seller’s paranoia and defensiveness, it’s completely understandable…

As small or part time sellers, we are not as desperate to stay at ebay or anywhere else,to sell, since many of us still have work or a profession elsewhere.

Ebay management is “just now” figuring out what they did to their customers by throwing all the technological interruptions (not disruptions)at them all at once.

This was exactly the advice Jared Spool gave Meg when she was trying to quickly get the color scheme of the background of the listings changed all at once, on the auction pages, back in the 1999 years…

I think he told her that readers don’t like fast and obvious changes. That’s a no brainer…and yet..the management can’t handle “no brainers”…C’Mon!

Are the managers of ebay so clueless that they couldn’t think far ahead enough to PLAN changes and be considerate of it’s members? Gee, even an amateur like myself would know enough to do that..

Yet..they expect the sellers to be?

mindelecOn February 14, 2009 at 10:30 pm Said:

“we believe this helps keep the meetings a lively exchange of ideas and because people are more likely to tell us the unvarnished truth if they believe they are speaking in confidence”

i don’t think any seller has a problem telling ebay the unvarnished truth. keeping secrets from your “partners” is a bad way of building trust with them.

all this meeting has told me is that ebay really has no concern over the needs of their smaller (30K a year or less) sellers.

ann, larry, sun and dd have stated the rest of my thoughts very clearly.

BrendaOn February 15, 2009 at 10:17 am Said:

“We will have more of these meetings throughout the year. As we have millions of sellers, it is not possible for us to meet with everyone, but it is possible for us to meet with many sellers who represent a good bulk of our inventory, and we think this approach makes the most sense.”

In other words, we’re not interested in talking to anyone else. You mom-and-pops, just quiet down and keep paying your fees like good little drones.

Problem is, your mom-and-pops were also your buyers. And they don’t appreciate being treated as inconsequential, which is why they’re taking their buying and selling business elsewhere, and why eBay had the fourth quarter that it did, when it should have been going great guns in this economy.

CandyOn February 15, 2009 at 1:50 pm Said:

Right on Brenda…unfortunately it will take a few more disasterous quarters before that bit of truth sinks in! I’m sitting back and looking forward to it.

GailOn February 15, 2009 at 4:06 pm Said:

eBay management is lost in a nightmare of its own making.

Reading between the lines, I would say Dinesh Lahti’s little “speach” to Richard actually said, “We realize all our changes didn’t work as we had intended, so now we’re begging our biggest sellers to point us in the right direction.”

In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, “What a bunch of maroons”.

JohnOn February 15, 2009 at 8:36 pm Said:

First let me say that I’m a new seller on eBay and still learning. That said; I think that “Doctor Deals” summed it up nicely in the post above.

Ebay certainly needs long term strategic plans to succeed in the market but at the same time, sellers need relief NOW for issues which are negatively affecting their businesses TODAY. Actively addressing current issues would go a long way in demonstrating to the seller base eBay’s commitment to the future. It would also (IMHO) give eBay some time to design stratigic changes which are at best years away.

You speak of getting the ‘unvarnished truth’ from sellers, the question most sellers are asking is; “is eBay listening?”.

BobOn February 16, 2009 at 5:14 am Said:

When and how did “I” become ebay’s “inventory”? And by the way Dinesh, your use of the word “disrupt” sounds a lot more combative then maybe impact would to my side of the “partnership”.

rooOn February 16, 2009 at 3:46 pm Said:

Frankly, I don’t see what any new meetings have to offer. All eBay has to do is go to the notes and video tapes from the past 5 years to get the message.

The problem is very simple: eBay has been run like the RNC and/or Bush Admin, which should be no surprise as the former leader of the RNC and eBay is now in the running for Governor of California.

Like the RNC and Bush Admin, if you wanted to be a part of the discussion, you had to sign a loyalty oath, aka as “the NDA”.

Like the RNC and Bush Admin, if you were an insider and dared to tell the truth of your experiences from your perspective, you were prosecuted/persecuted for doing so. That is, if ridicule didn’t do the trick first. Telling the truth is tantamount to being a traitor.

Like the RNC and Bush Admin, there is an atmosphere of denial, and zero public transparent accountability for fiascoes or response to disasters. Notice how, when you discuss the past year with someone at eBay, they quickly change the subject to all the “success stories”. “The fundamentals of our economy are strong” is a prime example – and pretty much the same malarkey we hear from eBay lately.

The bottom line is that either the leaders at eBay need to change from within, or they need to be changed out to those that understand the marketplace and have the power and courage to actually do what is necessary.

CandyOn February 17, 2009 at 1:39 pm Said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see what’s to be gained here. I’m sure Ebay read a lot of users’ posts on various articles and blogs this whole entire past year and also on their own discussion boards and here too. If they can’t understand the problems at this point then I’m afraid its hopeless! How many times do the problems have to be stated by how many Ebay users? If Ebay has its own path that it has decided to travel – whether we like it or not, whether we can work with it or not – then why bother with all this “window dressing”? It makes no sense to me and does nothing but waste everyone’s time. Ebay has a right to change its business model whichever way it sees fit. Where I give them fault is in not being honest with EVERY Ebay user from small buyer/seller on up! Once they start dividing huge sellers from small then they lose all credibility in my eye as being an “honest” company! Sorry but it had to be said!

implogOn February 17, 2009 at 2:04 pm Said:

Dinesh Lathi wrote

“we are holding these meeting under NDA because we believe this helps keep the meetings a lively exchange of ideas and because people are more likely to tell us the unvarnished truth if they believe they are speaking in confidence.”

Dinesh:

The “unvarnished truth” has been out there since the January 2008 announcement of the coming “enhancements”.

The “unvarnished truth” has been on eBayINK since its inception.

The “unvarnished truth” has been on the Discussion Forums since the January 2008 announcement of the coming “enhancements”.

The “unvarnished truth” has been on eBay’s market valuation since the “enhancements” were implemented.

How long do you have to listen to the “unvarnished truth” before you hear it?

Doctor DealsOn February 17, 2009 at 2:05 pm Said:

Dinesh,

I hope you take to heart what is being posted here by “your” customers, eBay sellers.

Your responsibilities encompass the entire eBay “Seller Experience” and from what I see posted all over the web, be it this Blog, eBay discussion boards and other sites like AuctionBytes.com, Sellers are not happy with their eBay experience and leaving in droves.

As a Seller still on this shrinking marketplace that concerns me greatly becuase even though our sales are growing, the marketplace as a whole is becoming less vibrant. And your action to hold secret meetings with on a select few of eBay’s largest Sellers and restrict any information what so ever from coming out of those meetings with a required NDA is COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.

Far too many of the steps eBay has taken to “Reinvigorate” this marketplace the past couple of years has had the opposite effect. While some have had positive effects “Secret” meetings like this with Diamond PowerSellers is NOT doing anything to improve the “Selling Experience” of the 99.99999999% of sellers shut out and excluded from any aspect of the meeting what so ever.

Your responsibility is to ALL Sellers, and if you want to earn their respect and build a “Partnership” with the selling community so as to turn eBay around, it is time the “Give and Take” start going both ways. Please release ALL of the information covered in the Long Beach Top Seller meeting to the entire Selling community and hold all future meetings in open regard even if not all Sellers can be accommodated in person with their attendance. We ALL have the right to know what eBay is planning and doing, as eBay is so fond of proclaiming there are over 1 MILLION families that rely on eBay as all or part of their income, not just a hand full of selected Top Sellers. This is an eBay “Partnership” with ALL Sellers, right? Not just between eBay and the top few Sellers I would hope.

Thank you,

Doctor Deals

DaveyOn February 17, 2009 at 2:45 pm Said:

Dinesh,

Can you outline for us, regarding your quote on partnerships being a give and take, exactly what ebay sees as having given to its seller base? I’m confused, as I’ve seen only “take.” With this in mind, I assume you are really saying that you do not want your seller partnerships to be good. If such, your desires are being realized. The horde of discontented small sellers/buyers you’ve unleashed is giving you much more publicity than you could ever overcome with a marketing program. You need to fix this, as the public perception of your marketplace is more important than enything else.

Please don’t send Ms. Norrington here again to tell us how valuable we are, and consider that a “give.”

As a small seller of items that sell under $25 and a good STR, I’ve seen ebay increase their fees 67 percent in 2008. I’ve seen some of my fraud protection tools disappear. I’ve been punished by a DSR system that has no objectivity. What else? A small seller would be foolish to try to expand in this marketplace anymore. Any seller starting in ebay flees at the first experience with a Paypal 21 day hold and joins the discontented hordes that you hear every day in line at the post office.

My “give” to your effort is to incent everyone at ebay based on their individual participation and success in your own marketplace. You’d instantly get more market intelligence than any group of sellers would ever give you. Get some individual skin in the game.

One last thing–who would go to battle to define the future of ecommerce with a comrade who is known to stab you in the back once or twice a year to claim a bigger share of the booty?

MsFish213On February 17, 2009 at 6:26 pm Said:

Yep, good luck with that.

AngelaOn February 19, 2009 at 4:44 pm Said:

“partnership…”

What a joke that is.

CatherineOn February 21, 2009 at 5:34 pm Said:

I can’t believe they are still trying to turn eBay into a marketplace for 5 catalog sellers. I buy less and less here because I do not want mass produced Chinese product. I can go to Walmart for that.

I believe that eBay does not care what 99.99999% of their customers (sellers) want. It seems to me that they see all of those as sheep to be fleeced so that someone pays for the concessions they give to the top 50 sellers.

AmyOn February 24, 2009 at 2:25 am Said:

Please read Scot Wingo’s latest article on Seeking Alpha, I think that it speaks loud and clear as to what the real needs of most of the sellers on eBay are. It is a 4+ part series, read the entire thing.

There must be a more diplomatic, and non-exclusive way to treat ALL of the people who are selling.
There also should be a way to have some kind of due process prior to restrictions or suspensions. The way it happens now is very disruptive to the lives of sellers. In some cases it may have been needed but there are so many times it has forced financial hardship on honest people.
The changes that are made should never be disruptive. In need of adjustment, maybe.

BrianOn February 24, 2009 at 9:44 am Said:

Sounds like a step in the right direction. I’m not one of the “big boy” sellers, but I’m impacted by changes and communication like everyone else. Better late than never…

CandyOn February 24, 2009 at 1:22 pm Said:

Scott put a whale of a lot of effort into that series. He managed to make even a small seller like me understand. His last installment “New Hope” is nothing short of genius! I wish Ebay would seriously look at that segment. I believe it would save Ebay and put it back on the right track again.

implogOn February 24, 2009 at 7:28 pm Said:

Richard:

President Norrington considered Scot Wingo wise enough to quote him in her PESA E-Commerce presentation in New Orleans in April 2008 as reported here on eBayINK.

Norrington said,

“Scot Wingo, at the ChannelAdvisor Conference earlier this month suggested that eBay remains the single best place to quickly convert your inventory into cash”

I wonder if President Norrington is still following the wisdom of Scot Wingo. I wonder if she is aware of how right he is again concerning the urgent need for eBay to snap out of it; to urgent need to fix the disastrous “enhancements” implemented in May of 2008. Stat.

As Scot so wisely wrote:

“I’ve been part of the eBay world since 1997 or earlier – first as a buyer and then as an entrepreneur in the eBay ecosystem with two companies. For us ‘old timers’, we know that eBay had something special going and now its painful to watch it fall apart, slipping through everyone’s hands like sand. Some folks in the press have drawn the comparison of the relationship between complaining sellers and eBay to be like that of an abusive relationship. That may be a fair criticism, but the way I look at it is if you had some ideas to turn this thing around and it was important to you that eBay not crash and burn, you should do something about it. I’m as frustrated as everyone else, because I believe the strategy outlined here has been in front of them for 5 yrs and they just don’t seem to either get it or be able to execute (or both). eBay was something special, and can be again.”