eBay To Institute Global Ban on Ivory Sales

Sue @ TameBayOn October 20, 2008 at 12:34 pm Said:

Excellent news!

bordenOn October 20, 2008 at 3:34 pm Said:

Too bad ebay has not decided to be responsible for ALL of the other atrocities on it’s site. Just pick an animal name, like “monkey”, then add “skin”, “fur”, “paw”, “hide” etc. to it and do a search to see the abhorrent items ebay CHOOSES to make profits from…WARNING, if you have a weak stomach and/or are an animal activist, these will be very difficult to view. This type of profiteering, only makes ebay’s “eco-friendly” site look like nothing more than a publicity stunt.

GaryOn October 20, 2008 at 4:16 pm Said:

I’m sorry, but perhaps you could explain to me how not allowing me to sell a piece of scrimshaw carved from a walrus tusk in 1820 is going to save a single elephant.

What ever happened to plain old common sense?

lisaOn October 21, 2008 at 2:12 am Said:

It is exactly this thinking Gary, that leads to the illegal poaching of elephants. ‘New’ ivory is disguised as ‘antique’ and sold around the world. If people did not buy any ivory, there would be no market for the poachers.

GazLanNaThaiOn October 21, 2008 at 4:34 am Said:

Richard

Do you think you could find time to investigate how this will affect “vegetable ivory” – this refers to ivory-like carvings from the tagua nut which is the fruit of a particular palm tree, and when carved looks exactly like new ivory to non-experts.

More info about the “vegetable ivory” trade here – http://www.tierramerica.net/2002/1103/iacentos.shtml

And an excellent example of the products here – http://www.taguanutivory.com/

This is becoming an increasingly important product in the third world, and is providing diversion employment for the tens of thousands of former animal ivory carvers, preventing descent into absolute poverty.

Given eBay’s abysmal record (recently) of using bot-driven search and removal of non-compliant listings, I am seriously concerned that the eBay systems cannot differentiate between perfectly legal tagua nut ivory and the illegal animal parts ivory.

Many thanks
Garry

DarraghCassidyOn October 21, 2008 at 5:30 am Said:

Brilliant news, hopefully a start to more moral and ethical trading.
Gary……I’m afraid plain old common sense makes your disgusting piece of scrimshaw (what ever that is) non saleable and pointless-at last.

Kevan CoxOn October 21, 2008 at 5:45 am Said:

I’m glad ebay have implemented this near blanket ban on ivory. I buy and sell antiques, including ivory, and still see this as a good thing because genuine antique lovers have many other markets open to them which allow the obvious common sense approach and manage to keep out unscrupulous animal and wildlife products. Well done ebay, and lets see further wildlife product bans.

CharlesOn October 21, 2008 at 5:59 am Said:

Gary: because it is quite easy to take a modern tusk and “antique” it so that it appears to be from 1820.

KelOn October 21, 2008 at 8:57 am Said:

1 word

R I D I C U L O U S

The sale of antique ivory specimens has no direct effect on the trade in illegal ivory,furthermore elephants are only 1 of many species which produce ivory,,,stopping its sale on ebay wont make the millions of ivory products made pre 1947 dissapear,and it wont stop it being bought and sold LEGALLY,,,,,collectors and dealers in antique ivory have no interest in buying or selling modern ivory,if they did they would be buying and selling the mammoth ivory and tagua examples.
I also think its very biased that certain ivory products will be allowed such as piano keys and inlaid articles,this is just victimisation of legitimate traders who actively suppourt the ban in modern ivory,,its ridiculous,,,
whatever next ebay,perhaps a ban on the sale of leather products such as shoes,handbags,sofas hats,,or perhaps a ban on articles carved from ox bone,,maybe next year a ban on all diamond jewellery unless you can prove its none conflict,,,,where will it end

LouiseOn October 21, 2008 at 9:48 am Said:

Kel – I think that has been more than answered above. Demand for antique ivory increases the potential for unscrupulous modern sellers to poach and disguise it as antique ivory. An example – I have an antique rabbit fur coat in my cupboard but do not as a rule wear it. I have no interest in wearing fur nor to promote the fur trade, and although I accept the rabbit died nearly fifty years ago, I still wouldn’t advertise fur to anyone around me. (I don’t disagree with wearing fur in cold climates but I don’t live in Siberia.)

Leather is a farmed material. Until such time as you can farm elephants for their tusks, then please understand there is a huge difference.

Go and sell it somewhere else.

PaulaOn October 21, 2008 at 11:45 am Said:

Thank you Richard, thank you, thank you, thank you for caring about elephants. We have been blogging about elephants, ivory and illegal trade for some time. Its just disgusting what his happening to our elephants in Africa and Asia as a result of greed – for what a pair of chopsticks!? Stupid trinkets. We need more people like you there to help guide the corporate world to make better decisions. And please go further than ivory in your quest to do what’s right for wildlife. May you stay at Ebay for many many years! From all of us at WildlifeDirect

kelOn October 21, 2008 at 12:30 pm Said:

Firstly Louise,without being rude,,you dont actually understand the topic you speak about,you are merely speaking from your heart and not evaluating facts.

CITES,actually sold hundreds of tons of ivory recently for manufacture,why do you think that was,,,if elephants were endangered do you honestly think this would have been allowed,

Propoganda leads us to believe that elephants are “endangered”,,this however is a misconception,they are “protected” and there is a big difference,,,the African elephants numbers are so great now that there is actually cullings going on right this very minute,not something that would be happening if elephants were in fact endangered.
Propoganda leads us to believe in misconceptions,elephant numbers were low in the 1980,s,,today in 2008 the numbers have increased dramatically,so much so that cullings have been sanctioned,,you are not told about this because its an inconvenient truth because elephants are the best money earner for all the welfare groups such as WWF and IFAW.
Another pointer which really peeves me is when people say “ivory can be easily aged”,,well the answer is no,it cant be aged,ivory can only age with time,if an idiot decided to try and age a piece of ivory,it would instantly be recognisable to any trained eye,,and at the end of the day its antique dealers and collectors who would buy it so they would know instantly,,,,,i would love to know why so many of you incorrectly believe you can age it,and believe its easy,,is that perhaps because you have tried,,no,its because you have been told it by eddie the elephant hugger,,so you believe it.
Another thing that makes me laugh is the fact that you are all so blissfully unaware at how much antique ivory there is out there,its been carved for thousands of years,each tusk making hundreds upon hundreds of items,,i can go to any antique shop,any antique fair and buy antique ivory,,so why would i want to buy modern examples,,modern examples very scacely emerge and when they do they are usually made from mammoth ivory or hippo ivory

Open your eyes to the propoganda

But finally what you need to understand is that saying antique ivory causes the death of modern elephants,the people who buy antiques buy them for the fact they are old,,its ridiculous,,.
Can you imagine a collector of antique furniture filling his house with Ikea furniture,,NO,, can you imagine a collector of art deco figures filling his house with plastic reproductions,,its ridiculous.

AshOn October 21, 2008 at 12:53 pm Said:

Will this ban affect FOSSIL ivory? This is not antique ivory, and it is not from elephants – it is legally dug up from the ground in the arctic by aboriginal peoples, ie. Inuits and Eskimos, many of whom depend on the income they get from collecting and selling the fossil ivory. Fossil ivory is usually between 500 and 15,000 years old, depending on the type. It comes from both extinct mammoths and mastodons, as well as from the tusks and teeth of walruses. The walrus ivory is mostly found in old village sites, and much has already been worked into something hundreds or thousands of years ago, and is sold as artifacts. These pieces are often small and usually made into incredibly beautiful jewelry.

Fossil ivory is not white, it ranges from a deep cream color to completely black, as a result of it’s years buried in the ice and soil in the arctic. When polished, it has a wonderful gleam and soft feel that cannot be found in anything else.

Will the ban include fossil ivory, and jewelry made from it? What about knives that have fossil ivory handles – they are very common. The fossil walrus teeth that are hundreds of years old that many native peoples sell as a primary source of income?

Or, just elephant ivory? (which I commend – and would like to see a ban on wolf skins, too, btw)

AshOn October 21, 2008 at 1:39 pm Said:

Thought you might find this helpful -

Here is a good article discussing fossil MAMMOTH ivory:
Trade in mammoth ivory, helped by global thaw, flourishes in Russia

Quote:
“The trade, bolstered recently by global warming, which has melted the tundra and exposed more frozen remains, is not only legal but actually endorsed by conservationists. They note somewhat grudgingly that while the survival of elephants may be in question, it is already too late for mammoths. Mammoth ivory from Siberia, they say, meets some of the Asian demand for illegal elephant ivory and its trade should be encouraged.”

CharlieOn October 21, 2008 at 1:48 pm Said:

Listen people, it is so very very naive to think that just because Ebay bans the alpha and omega of ivory products that will have any effect on poaching……zero. I lived in Tanzania and I can assure you those poaching and those buying have a sell on ebay the farthest from their mind and transaction. You all sound like ivory is something you pull out of your garage and say “hey if I make money from this old chess set then I need to go get some more maybe I can shoot some elephants?” There is not one person on Ebay selling ivory that is even remotely related to poaching.

SharonOn October 21, 2008 at 2:16 pm Said:

It would seem to me that you have double standards.
Certain ivory items are going to continue to be allowed to be sold – pianos (with ivory keys) being one which you have mentioned, whilst a carved ivory brooch cannot be sold – this makes a complete mockery of your ‘ban’ on ivory sales.
My limited understanding of ivory sales on e-bay is that they must be certified as antique.
If this ruling is in place, then the elephants were actually killed before we were able to do anything about it – you are closing a gate after the horse has bolted.
My concern is that this ban could extend to vintage mink coats, fox furs, vintage kid gloves, vintage crocodile handbags, snakeskin boxes and perhaps all leather items.
I think you are mis-judged in your decision and the sensible route forward would be to closely police the ruling already in place.
This is, of course, a very emotive subject and no decent person advocates the wanton killing of any species on the planet, but I do think that free trade should be allowed on genuine antique ivory items and I am certain that it is not beyond that capablilities of E-Bay to closely monitor same.

nothoneyOn October 21, 2008 at 2:16 pm Said:

Thank you, eBay, for this ban on ivory sales. Elephant poaching for ivory is now a huge problem in Kenya, DRC, Zimbabwe and just about any country elephants roam since CITES decided to open ivory sales to China. You can read more about the plight of endangered elephants at http://www.wildlifedirect.org

Please consider also banning the sale of any endangered wildlife parts on your site. The U.S. is the number two importer of endangered wildlife and wildlife parts, right behind China.

Thanks again.

JohnOn October 21, 2008 at 3:25 pm Said:

Everyone should stop buying ivory period, and support alternatives such as vegetable ivory.

It can be used for many of the same purposes including eco-friendly carvings, buttons and fair trade jewelry .

There are no excuses. With Chinese purchasing power on the rise, Chinese buyers are buying more and more ivory so anything that can be done to reduce sales of what’s already on the market should help before that huge market completely opens.

AnaOn October 21, 2008 at 6:55 pm Said:

I thought I’d share my thoughts regarding EBAY banning ALL sales(except for a few exceptions) of ivory as of December 1st and will be enforcing it as of Jan. 1st. This new policy is to protect the Asian and African elephants which absolutely has nothing to do with Mammoth or Walrus Ivory. I feel extremely bad for walrus & mammoth ivory carvers artist that lived remotely up in Alaska, since Ebay has been their only venue and source of income(Ebay is a great way for them to sell because they eliminate the middleman brokers). This news has been a dagger straight to to heart to all legal ivory sellers through Ebay. Unfortunately, so many people are so ignorant and misinformed about ivory that they think all ivories come from elephants. There are so many different ivories. Mammoth as you know are extinct and there is no purpose of regulating their tusk(I don’t think Ebay had anything to do with their extinction). Such ivory tusk is found sometimes along frozen river banks (where they have lied frozen for thousands of years) and turned into beautiful and useful items. Walrus Ivory that is fossilized come from a walrus that died of natural causes is allowed by the Dept. of US Fish & Wildlife for anyone to carve it. Only walrus ivory from a fresh hunt is highly regulated and the Alaska Natives have been hunting these animals for thousands of years. The Alaskan Natives are not wasteful people and only hunt was is allowed. Every part of the animal is consumed and their tusk turn into beautiful artwork or tools instead of thrown away. I understand there are sellers who abuse or don’t understand what they are selling, but it shouldn’t be for those few that causes the ban for the rest of abiding sellers. Illegal sellers will still find a way to sell their illegal elephant ivory with or without Ebay, but for those families that have made their livelihood selling legal items through Ebay, they are the ones affected and hurt by this ban.

Best Regards, Ana

yutOn October 21, 2008 at 7:42 pm Said:

Excellent news! …

llc1138On October 21, 2008 at 9:08 pm Said:

To cut through the fine detail – ban the whole ivory trade and persecute those that try to work around it.

Making ANY ivory item desirable fuels the illegal trade, and to think otherwise is totally foolish.

Note that the illegal trade of ivory, blood diamonds, drugs or parts of other scarce species (tigers, gorillas etc), only provides money to tribal militias and criminals.

So stop pussy-footing around and get serious.

implogOn October 21, 2008 at 11:07 pm Said:

Great start.

Now stop the selling of cat and dog products on eBay China.

Hopefully President Norrington witnessed the trade and slaughter of domesticated fur bearing animals when she was in China. Maybe she thought of Yorkies.

Photos of live animals for sale in China posted by eBay sellers show horrific conditions, including animals chained to cages on the streets and puppies kept in wire-bottomed cages (in the U.S. and other countries, such housing is prohibited by animal welfare laws for humane reasons) and in rusty, barely lit cages with empty water bowls. China’s dog and cat fur trade is notoriously cruel. Undercover investigators found that animals were being beaten over the head and skinned alive. A company like eBay shouldn’t be supporting this kind of animal abuse.

Please do what you can Richard to make this stop, local “culture” be damned.

GeoffOn October 22, 2008 at 1:05 am Said:

I have Ivory billiard ball sets that I collected in my job as a billiard fitter and table renovater over the last 36 years , I often buy in tables that have Ivory Billiard and snooker sets and cue’s with ivory name plate badges and tables with ivory name plate bagdes , over the years I have watched the balls go from £5 a ball to upto £50 a ball intodays value’s , could anyone from ebay tell me why I should be restricted in selling on these Ivory balls which where made around 1900 and have no influence on poaching as they are for the Billiard antique collector only .
As a Billiard table fitter and historian I can write my own certification as an expert in billiard antiques , so it would even in todays stringent laws still be legal to sell on these ivory balls .
I accept that at sometime in the past ivory led to many deaths of elephants , and it may shock poeple to know that only 5 full size balls where turned from one full size tusk , I have a picture of a man sat on a small mountain of billird balls , it is shocking when you think all those elephants where killed for a leisure pastime of the victorians , time moved on and composit balls where made and elephant ivory was banned for the making of billiard and snooker , a legal trade in OLD victorian billiard balls has been going on since they became collectable , EBAY decides to ban all ivory trade , I think that is going TOO far , as far as I am aware ivory products manufactured before 1936 is legal to sell unless it is still in raw tusk form , so why is Ebay banning a product that in the eye’s of the law is legal to sell with CERTIFICATION to state its age ?

Geoff

GeoffOn October 22, 2008 at 1:13 am Said:

Sorry ivory products where banned from 1st of june 1947 not 1936 as stated above ,it was banned by the billiard industry in 1936

Geoff

Chris GrayOn October 22, 2008 at 1:37 am Said:

Charlie hit the nail on the head – not only aren’t poachers selling on eBay, the buyers aren’t either. To think this will make any conceivable difference to the continuation of poaching not only outright laughable, it’s completely irresponsible to make the aforementioned claim.

Boarding up a shopfront doesn’t shut the factory down.

KelOn October 22, 2008 at 3:27 am Said:

Well said Charlie and Sharon,

We all agree that elephants need protection,however baning the sale of legitamate antique specimens will have no effect on the modern ivory trade,,i would go as far to say even that the mammoth ivory trade has more of an effect as this keeps modern ivory carvers in China in business,and also fuels collectors of modern ivory carvings,,the trouble is every one is so wrapped up in the fact that antique ivory may have come from an elephant,,,, that they seem to forget that the animal died many years ago,the sale of ivory is only permitted if it is antique and in a worked form,,there is no evidence that antique ivory has an effect on modern ivory trading as they are 2 seperate fields,,collectore of antiques have no interest in reproductions,they have no interest in buying or selling illegal ivory,,in fact many of us actively suppourt the ban in modern ivory,,the sad thing is the “do gooders” and “tree huggers” cant see past that as they are so single minded.
Antiques are a part of our history,wether thats good or bad history,,and you cant expect that history to dissapear because ebay ban the sale of it,i would be very interested to find out the legal implications of ebay denying the sale of a perfectly legal product such as antique ivory.

guy lyonsOn October 22, 2008 at 3:47 am Said:

As a collector of antique and vintage items ,i do feel Ebay has alot to answer for !!!!
In the spring of 2004 i and other collectors likewise ,purchased vintage ivory ,and e bay received a sellers comission payment .
Then 4 years later ,with past sale comissions pocketed ,you suddenly ban all sales of ivory ???
Who is kidding who here i wonder ,and i doubt the organisation was too worried about the law then ,but now it sure looks good to support the cause .
The law is an ass ,and take my word for it ,blanket bans on ivory will never protect the elephant , but it will drive the trade underground . I dont know of any collectors who wish for any species to become extinct .
If illegal ivory products are being made in the far east ,then punishing a family for inheriting an antique item ,seems plain daft .
In our current age e bay could investigate the countries ,accused of working with illegal ivory ,and do something about it.
Ebay seems to be promiting a dangerous idea ….
all ownership of ivory should be banned ,regardless of its age , and all because its symbolic …
the assumption that all collectors want the elephant wiped out ,because then their ivory is worth even more,or because they dont care about the animal .

lisaOn October 22, 2008 at 4:02 am Said:

ivory products are a product of mans greed.
the legal sales of ivory rules were not adhered to and that is why it has been banned.
people want to buy ugly trinkets which once belonged to an elephant, however old, and sellers want the money. the same goes for tiger tooth, rhino horn, baleen, racoon penis bone etc..

bobbiOn October 22, 2008 at 4:22 am Said:

well done ebay! and well done all you ‘tree huggers’ around the world, without which, there would be no species left!!

leeOn October 22, 2008 at 4:28 am Said:

ivory trinkets are ugly and people should not buy any, regardless of age.
all wildlife products should be banned. well done ebay!

MunasheOn October 22, 2008 at 5:08 am Said:

I think what you are proposing is the right thing, any effort to protect wildlife which as we know is aready endangered is not only a responsiblity but a must.

JenniferOn October 22, 2008 at 5:28 am Said:

Ever since I can remember I have found the origins and ‘harvesting’ of ivory goods quite abhorrent, so am delighted to see eBay has now taken this responsible stand. I know I am part of an increasing number of people who feel this way. Is eBay going to extend this ban to fur products (mink, fox, rabbit etc.) and also to tortoiseshell? – there are many antique tortoiseshell items that appear beautiful on the surface, but the method by which they were obtained is far from beautiful. Well done to eBay on the ivory ban, but please let it be only the first step in this necessary direction – don’t let it stop there!

LynneOn October 22, 2008 at 9:22 am Said:

I do not like ivory – it isn’t even an attractive medium in which to make things.

Why would anyone want an article made from the tusk of a dead animal?

It’s like those umbrella stands made from elephant’s feet…gruesome.

I’m not a tree-hugger either, but have read the postings with interest.

Whilst I totally agree that trade in new ivory is abhorrent, I cannot see why banning its sale is going to save any elephants.

From a previous posting; -

“There are no excuses. With Chinese purchasing power on the rise, Chinese buyers are buying more and more ivory so anything that can be done to reduce sales of what’s already on the market should help before that huge market completely opens”

But surely reducing or banning sales of what is already on the market actually CREATES demand.

I remember a TV programme showing poaching in Africa. It was just awful, At the end the Game Park Officials set fire to a mountain of illegal ivory. The pile was about 40ft high, hundreds of feet round, and massive.

Why burn it?

More elephants would have to die for the poachers to replace that ivory.

And it is a sobering thought that the hundreds of elephants that were slaughtered to make that ivory mountain really did die in vain.

Why can’t we sell all the ivory in the rest of the world to China?
Send the lot – new, old and antique.
Create a glut, satisfy demand, then there would be no market for the poachers and traders to sell to, ergo no illegal trade, and no more dead elephants!

I know most will not agree with me, but it makes sense if you think about it.

I want to save the elephants as well, but it isn’t reasonable to think that banning sale of ivory on e-bay will achieve this – it will result in the slaughter of even more elephants dying as the supply diminishes.

MandyOn October 22, 2008 at 11:53 am Said:

Great news, but I hope that Ebay will watch the foreign sellers, who use Faux in their description when we know that it is not. If it was faux why put Ivory just put what it is made of normally resin. Unfortunately to many overseas sellers are abusing the system for their cheap imports, and expensive postal rates and it is killing our business. I think all fur and anything to do with the killing or maiming of animals should be banned all over, but I don’t think it will ever come to that.

Just watch out Ebay, its the overseas sellers that are breaking the ban.

lisaOn October 22, 2008 at 12:57 pm Said:

mandy, real tortoiseshell is already prohibited by ebay, sellers just list as ‘faux’ . The high prices fetched tells everyone what it really is. Ebay is not the only site to buy ivory, if sellers and buyers need to buy this horrible stuff why don’t they follow the proper rules of antique ivory and apply for cites certs?

lisaOn October 22, 2008 at 12:58 pm Said:

sorry mandy, that last comment was for jennifer!

RichOn October 22, 2008 at 7:28 pm Said:

I agree in stopping the import of all ivory as it’s illegal to import it. The ban brought about by C.I.T.I.E.S. made it legal to sell and own any pre-ban ivory already in the states. One of the sellers on ebay owns an ivory museum and is dedicated to preserving the history while also donating funds to help prevent the illegal import and also to help fund preserves that protect the elephants. What little ivory he sells he uses the money to support his museum and to aid the preserves and educate other on the plight of the elephant. By taking away his right to sell ,ebay is limiting his ability to help out the cause.
There is no simply answer ,but most large pieces of ivory sold within the U.S. must have documentation to prove that it was imported prior to the ban.
If documentation is provided it should still be allowed ,as no laws are being broken.

RichOn October 22, 2008 at 10:29 pm Said:

I don’t mind the ban. It’s probably a good thing. But when I was trying to list a book entitled ‘Fables in Ivory,’ the bots wouldn’t let me. So I revised the listing title but included the full title in the description. Again, prohibited. Prohibiting the sale of ivory is good, but books about antiques made of ivory?

Mr TOn October 23, 2008 at 5:10 am Said:

Because Lisa,,, CITES certificates are only required for export out of your own country,,why would you apply for something that takes weeks to receive,,costs a fortune,,when you are legally entitled to sell your antique without it,,

I have read all the comments,,some are ridiculous,,at the end of the day collectors of antiques and sellers of antiques are not the problem,,the only people to blame is the poachers and the African goverments who allow poaching to happen now,,perhaps if IFAW had spent some of the millions of pounds they have wasted scapegoating honest sellers on ebay,,there would be quite a lot more alive in the wild,,,imagine how far that money would have gone,,,even $100,000 of money raised from donations would pay a lot of wages on protecting elephants with game rangers,,,but no,,they would rather waste it all campaigning against the innocent,,
It does not matter if you like Ivory,,agree with it being bought or sold,,they are just emotive feelings,, the facts are simple,, YES elephants want protecting,,, but NO antique ivory should not be banned,,as it has no effect on an elephant being protected in the wild,,,,, if all the “tree huggers” spent more time focussing on the real issue of poachers of modern elephants rather than whinging about honest people selling and buying antiques,,perhaps there would be a few more elephants on our planet now,,
Whilst you focus your attention on the antique dealers,the real culprits sneak past you undetetcted and scott free,,, if anyone was selling illegal products,,drugs for example,would you honestly sell them on ebay,,of course not and the same goes for illegal ivory,,all the honest business sellers now penailsed for crimes they have not commited would never be selling illegal products such as ivory,,especially on ebay for the world to see.

RichardOn October 23, 2008 at 5:14 am Said:

I agree that Elephants should be protected. My concern is that ebay states it will ban the sale of all ivory.
I build custom knives and have used a great deal of mammoth ivory for handles. It is legal in all countries ,is not protected or endangered.It is technically a fossil and if uncovered in any area with high ground frost. For those who aren’t aware , mammoth ivory is the tusks from prehistoric animals. These creatures have been extinct for somewhere between 8000 – 10,000 years. Banning the sale of it as well could possibly do more harm than good. Many people have used it for years instead of elephant ivory. Ebay is a business and they have the right to make their own rules ,which I agreed to obey when I registered. I will conform to their rules ,but do not have to agree with them.
There are 1000’s of prohibited items(drug paraphernalia , alcohol } openly sold on a daily basis . Perhaps they should considered cracking down on these violations before banning legal an unregulated items.

Werewolfy1On October 23, 2008 at 5:36 am Said:

A large number of posts express disgust at selling all animal parts. Taxidermy is a skilled trade and does not involve killing a living animal in order to provide the ‘raw material’ Natural deaths and accidents account for a large majority of modern taxidermy, and Victorian examples exist in their millions..and, quite rightly, may be traded legally.

We all support Conservation, a fact that ultra-green people tend to trivialise.

The current legislation is more than ample to curtail rogue dealers. Sadly, the inflexible policies of e bay also curtail legal activities in offering such things for sale.

To all the conservationists, I ask that you live up to your high ideals; stop wearing leather shoes. No longer eat meat etc etc etc. Farmed, or wild; an animal is an animal, and when you have strong feelings about the issue, then those sentiments must embrace farmed animals..providing that is that you wish to be taken seriously.

PatOn October 23, 2008 at 7:35 am Said:

Thank you for this ban.It’s an excellent start and a message to all refusniks, some of whom have aired their blinkered views on this blog.

lisaOn October 23, 2008 at 10:49 am Said:

Mr T, I am well aware that cites is only needed to export/import. It is the blatent disregard of the rules of buyers and sellers of ‘antique’ ivory that has led to this ebay ban. The rules of ebay allowed antique ivory to be sold in the sellers country, but this rule was not adhered to. If people had obeyed the rules, perhaps this ban would not have happened. You are not legally allowed to sell your antique item internationally without cites, and these international laws are not set by ‘tree huggers’.
Well said Pat !

GaryOn October 24, 2008 at 1:59 am Said:

An elephant should not be killed EVER just for the tusks. But I think eBay are wrong in banning the sale of it on their site. I would guess that eBay are viewed by hundreds of millions of people a year but never once would I have thought that eBay condone or promote the killing of an elephant so that they too can profit from the sale of ivory, far from it! Ebay are a highly respected worldwide organisation and should be encouraged to let individuals from around the globe sell their items made from legal pre-ban ivory, by doing so they can work with the relevant legal departments in ensuring that the ivory items being sold have certified legal documentation. This will help to keep public awareness about the whole issue of illegal ivory trade and will help the police in tracking down the people that could be supplying fresh ivory to the market. By eBay banning the sale I think they are simply ‘washing their hands’ of the fact that the trade will still go on and it’s highly likely too that by banning the sale of ivory from their site will eventually make the price of ivory items increase, making it more tempting for poachers to risk their lives to kill an elephant. Ebay are able to do more good than most of us put together and could much better things than banning the sale of ivory! Do you really believe that by not seeing ivory items on eBay and forgetting about it that the problem has gone away? Regards, Gary

AnneOn October 24, 2008 at 9:02 am Said:

I am glad that the elphant has been protected and have watched TV about the poachers in Africa.If there are not many of the elepahnts about can they not dart them and remove most of the tusk,so making them not viable to kill.Also China i think should be removed from ebay altogether if it’s people make engough stink about the animal abuse that is in there country,
the goverment would have to listen.But they are so controlled most of the Chinese would not dare to rebel but it is time the people of China started to make there feeling known.I do think though it is a bit hard to ban antique ivory it will have a marked effect on the people who do carve legal fossil ivory

KelOn October 24, 2008 at 1:13 pm Said:

Anne,,
interesting comments,,however you like many have been brainwashed into believeing that there is just a handful of elephants out there,,there is currently over half a million, *minimum,and numbers rising)

In Africa cullings have been sanctioned to decrease the numbers because conservation programs have been so effective,,,,IFAW fail to tell you this because its an inconvenient truth as elephants are there biggest money spinner,, poaching does exist,,but is it as big a problem as they let on,,i severely doubt it.

With regards to the fossil ivory remark,,common sense teaches that Fossil ivory is more of a problem than antique ivory,,it is carved in China by the very same people who carve the modern illegal elephant ivory,,and is collected by the people who have no interest in antique ivory,so in effect the same people interested in mammoth carvings are likely to buy the elephant carvings,,i would go as far to say that mammoth ivory carvings have more of a negative effect on modern day poaching than any pre 1947 antique specimen you can buy,,, whilst ever the demand for modern carved ivory exists wether thats elephant or fossil,elephants will be poached,,,antiques have ZERO effect on this,,if your going to ban antique ivory,(which is ridiculous) then in the process lets ban the following

vegetable ivory
boar tusk
mammoth ivory
fossil ivory
faux ivory
Bone

Because all these products are legal,,but fall very much in the same category,,if your going to ban LEGAL antique ivory,,then lets ban all other LEGAL forms of ivory as mentioned above,,lets penalise everyone.

kelOn October 24, 2008 at 1:27 pm Said:

I also forgot to mention the following,,

I think IFAW should be ashamed of the fuss they have caused over ivory on ebay over the last couple of years,,ironically i actually used to suppourt there cause as although i apprecaiate antiques including ivory,i agreed in conservation of the elephant populations and used to donate and subscribe to them,,,,( i still suppourt the cause,,but not through people who waste my charitable donations witch hunting ebay)
However the suppourt i once gave them was wrong,because all they have done in the last 2 years is constantly hound ebay about ivory,,every time i logged on there website they would show countless pictures of alledged modern ivories,,however 99% of these propoganda driven pictures were of antique items,,i even saw countless examples of faux ivory resin articles,,,which went to prove that they had no regard for evidence and facts,,they just wanted numbers to criticise them about,and what startled me was the fact that every person viewing this information would belive them,,i knew the truth due to my knowledge,,but the millions of others reading this would genuinely believe this was all modern illegal ivory,,when it wasnt,
I also soon questioned where my donations were actually being spent,as every time i logged on and viewed the anti ebay propoganda,,i realised that countless amounts of money was being wasted in this ridiculous ebay witch hunt,,,,,,,,,,
Im genuinely saddened now that ebay have taken such drastic action,,,as blaming antiques for the modern day poaching,,could easily be likened to blaming a baby born in germany today for the persecution of the jews decades ago,,conservationists are always quick to blame the antiques trade for the poaching problem,because its an easy option,,,and because unlike the poachers who operate shielded away from the spotlight,,the antiques trade are open about what they are doing,,,

Its a sad sad day for all,as it sends out the wrong message to all,,blaming antiques dealers and collectors is ridiculous,,look at all the evidence before you jump to conclusions.

BAZOn October 24, 2008 at 2:19 pm Said:

It is impossible to justify the sale of any animal parts.

Is it possible that all those voicing their support for this industry make money from it, one day you will come to see the error of your ways.

Perhaps we could pull a couple of your teeth and sell those.

lisaOn October 24, 2008 at 3:18 pm Said:

Baz, well said. Everyone in support of this subject either wants to buy or sell it, although their concern for the ‘modern’ elephant is commendable!
Human parts on ebay anyone?

lisaOn October 24, 2008 at 3:38 pm Said:

werewolfy, i am sure there are as many scrupulous taxidermy artists, than those who are not. just ask the wildlife police crime unit. are you seriously saying that there are no people on ebay (and not just on ebay) whose wares have not been illegally taxidermied for profit? people will always trade illegally, whether it’s birds eggs, birds, ivory, or anything else that is protected that makes it a target, cash is the cause, not care.