Thursday, June 5th, 2008
Oodles of Opportunities
Wal-Mart quietly launched its own Classified Listings service at the end of last month partnering with Oodle to deliver the service. With the recent headline-grabbing news for online classifieds with both eBay’s Kijiji and Craigslist, I was surprised that this only raised a few eyebrows online. Although, it does confirm what we talked about on Ink last month; that the U.S. classifieds market continues to grow and represents the largest eCommerce market in the world… with still endless opportunities to grow further.
I asked Martin Herbst, general manager of Kijiji.com, what he thought of the recent news. He indicated a genuine excitement towards Wal-Mart’s launch, explaining that it reaffirmed Kijiji’s understanding of the market’s potential and that he was not surprised a large brand like Wal-Mart would jump in. However, he did go onto to stress that their decision to partner with Oodle, a classifieds search platform, is quite different from Kijijji’s approach to the market:
“We focus on building local communities by providing our users with an online marketplace to inquire, meet, transact and share with others in their town. Everything starts with this local community. Consequently, it’s very important for us that ads are posted directly by Kijiji users.”
He went on to add…
“We think this approach, supported by a very easy-to-use interface and clean environment, will allow us to capitalize on the market’s full potential and continue our explosive traffic growth. This potential is reflected every day in our community of over four million Kijiji users who often share their wonderful experiences with us, whether it’s finding a new puppy, buying a car from a neighbor, selling a couch, or finding a nanny for their kids.”
Given Wal-Mart’s core focus on new retail goods, I don’t think it’s a surprise that they chose to partner with an established classifieds aggregator over building their own from scratch. However, given that Oodle is essentially a search engine for classifieds (and less of a true marketplace) it does make for an interesting partnership. One could argue that with eBay already established as the leader in consumer-to-consumer marketplaces, the extension into consumer-to-consumer classifieds marketplaces represents a much more logical, natural extension of their business. But, as Martin indicated, it’s a huge market with plenty of room for new players. Why wouldn’t the “mother of all marketplaces” get in on the online classifieds action?
On a related note, I received some one-off emails since I first referenced Kijiji – ranging from “What’s up with that name?” to “how do Classifieds fit into the big picture for eBay?”. Some fast facts follow:
– Kijiji means “village” in Swahili and was first introduced in Canada, France, Germany, Italy, China, Japan and Taiwan back in early 2005. Later that year, Kijiji spread to Austria, Switzerland and India. In July, 2007, eBay launched Kijiji U.S. in 220 cities.
– Kijiji is available in more than 1,000 cities/neighborhoods around the world with over 47 million users.
– Classifieds is the fastest growing business unit within eBay Inc. The Classifieds business includes five major brands: Gumtree, Kijiji, LoQUo , Marktplaats and Mobile.de.
Cheers,
RBH
Tagged: classifieds, craigslist, ebay, ecommerce, gumtree, kijiji, loquo, marktplaats, martin+herbst, online+classifieds, oodle, walmart
MechelleOn June 5, 2008 at 4:19 pm Said:
Kijiji means “village” in Swahili
What’s the relationship between a village in swahili and online classifieds? Is it supposed to symbolize Kijiji classifieds as small villages (local communities)?
DaveyOn June 5, 2008 at 5:01 pm Said:
The only reservation I’d have about using Kijiji is its ownership. Looking for all avenues to flee the floundering eBay ship, I don’t want to jump somewhere where down the road the rules will suddenly change once the hook is in my lip, only Paypal will be allowed, they “listen” then give me something I didn’t ask for, etc. I believe the intents of Craigslist management. I don’t anymore with eBay’s.
One interesting thing about all these venues, though, is that the venue dose not try to interfere with the sale. Buyers have to exercise intelligence, and sellers have to support their own reputation.
JimOn June 5, 2008 at 5:03 pm Said:
Kijiji means “village” in Swahili
And, of course, everyone knows that… (not)
implogOn June 5, 2008 at 7:03 pm Said:
Richard
Are you about to be “disappeared”?
The blog is aimless.
It hasn’t worked out as the smooth astro-glide aided system for the gritty insertion of eBay’s propaganda.
It is not a platform for eBay’s super excited puff pieces and is not, close, even nearly close, to a house organ explaining the super exciting “excellent buying experience” blast into the future, the 5th Wave the feedback “enhancements” promise.
The blog does not unify the community.
It fails to show how we can all move together to eBay godhead. Perhaps because of President Norrington and Exalted Supreme Leader Donahoe’s unintelligible communications.
The community members have responded with posts and proof that the eBay brain trust excellencies who have posted here have left silly foolish refutable droppings and not come back to clean up.
Are you OK?
You are not posting and you should be. The roof is on fire as the popular song says.
If this Blog goes *poof* as we expect,we are still with you, with your pseudonym and with your ghost writer.
Keep those notes. Write that book.
The world is yours.
(Unless you signed a “Zip It Mister” contract.)
(Can you find out if our dear Uncle Griff signed a “Zip It Mister” contract in case he too is disappeared by the “excited” and “delighted” “team” in old San Jose? Along with his “pearls” can you find out if he has any dirt?)
MechelleOn June 5, 2008 at 7:09 pm Said:
Why Kijiji? there are many villages that could have been used that have better oral rhythm and recall value. There isn’t much brand recognition yet so they should take the opportunity to change the name quickly. It is awkward and people typically don’t use words that they feel uncomfortable pronouncing publicly, which isn’t good for the most prominent and tested form of marketing “word of mouth”.
What do I know I’m just a lowly seller on eBay?
petewheatOn June 5, 2008 at 8:29 pm Said:
The Kijiji name by itself is proof positive that eBay has lost any marketing savvy or insight they may have ever possessed. The fact that Wal-Mart wants in means for a small fee they can dip their toe in the holy water to sense its wetness, nothing more.
SheOn June 5, 2008 at 10:06 pm Said:
“You are not posting and you should be.”
Think about it…You’re responding to a post Richard made!
“(Unless you signed a “Zip It Mister” contract.)”
How many people do you suppose get a job with a company like eBay and DON’T have to sign a non-disclosure agreement?
“I don’t want to jump somewhere where down the road the rules will suddenly change once the hook is in my lip, only Paypal will be allowed, they “listen” then give me something I didn’t ask for, etc.”
Um…so don’t use it then? Seems pretty simple. Kijiji doesn’t charge any listing fees, right? So what exactly would you have to lose, or fear? Just walk away if you decide you don’t like the platform.
“What do I know I’m just a lowly seller on eBay?”
It’s hard to tell how much you actually know, but that doesn’t have anything to do with your status as an eBay seller. Weren’t you leaving, anyway? Or have other venues not proven as lucrative and friendly as you hoped?
“Are you OK?”
You should ask yourself that.
The comments here are increasing in their level of lunacy and decreasing in their relevance.
No wonder a select few have the comments to yourselves. Nobody likes a troll pit. (Think about that before you try to call ME a troll. Like attracts like, perhaps?)
Now to bring it back on topic. I have no idea why Walmart would bother with classifieds. It’s not like them to do things subtly or quietly, which makes me think they’re not convinced the classifieds will succeed, so they want the option to pull them with little notice and little attention if they flop. It isn’t like Walmart needs classifieds to find buyers. I personally can’t stand them and don’t shop there, but plenty of other people do.
LurchOn June 5, 2008 at 11:47 pm Said:
A couple of things – one, it is odd that this seems to be more about Walmart jumping in as a justification for Kijiji’s existence. Additionally, I don’t think that Walmart jumping onboard with the classified concept actually means that much — they try out an awful lot of things — recall how well VOD worked for them? OK, to be fair, it ain’t working too great for anyone, but they do try out a variety of things, often to just ultimately close them up. Given that track record, this seems to indicate little.
However, since you brought up this subject, it is hopefully now “appropriate” to ask this (and to be clear, this is a question, not something expressing an opinion) – and it’s been sort of in the back of my head for a number of months now.
The question is: “Why should I use Kijiji?” Let me elaborate on this a bit, but that is the core question. One of the things we do is a regular weekly event, in addition to event coordination, managment and promotion of more “one-off” type events locally. I have asked – a lot of people – no one where we are at has ever heard of Kijiji, let alone use it – and we are in a metropolitan area which has a section on Kijiji. I was checking to see if people looked at, in which case we should start listing our events there. Really, not ONE person had heard of it or used it in any way. Having established that, I want to also say that this doesn’t particularly matter – to explain, we also use upcoming (yahoo’s). One person we’ve ever talked to looks at upcoming. Why do we use it? Because of their feeds – their very prolific, and THAT’s where we get the eyeballs, thus, we use it.
I realize Kijiji is free, but that ultimately is not enough, as there is a time investment. We currently utilize around 20 online events places, both nationally (with local breakdowns like Kijiji has) and only locally. There’s a reason for each – mostly either due to local usage or due to their prolific feeds. Each of these sites can define this (or, in the case of craigslist and our alt weekly press here, it’s pretty self-defining). So I’m curious why should I add the time to begin utilizing Kijiji – what does it have to offer for that time investment? I realize listing numbers have increased, but that doesn’t do me any good if there are no eyes (hmm, a parallel to the numbers being created on eBay with the new partner buy)? Ah – I digress, this is ONLY “about Kijiji and the online classifieds business overall.” I do apologize.
But seriously — why should I utilize it?
MechelleOn June 6, 2008 at 9:57 am Said:
@Martin Herbst
You can list an item with all the necessary details on kijiji in less time than it took you to write that response? That is pretty fast. I haven’t looked at the site (I have no reason to) but I am quite impressed with the speed items can be listed.
Why can’t eBay.com provide a system that is that efficient? Specifically for revisions, which are insanely time consuming especially when you have to revise 800+ listings to conform to policy changes or eBay system errors. For those that have thousands of listings I am stunned they ever get them revised.
Also, item specifics, which I had to revise all of my listings to make sure I had appropriate details to show up in search. I would prefer to be able to set my own specifics to have as options on every listing I set. As it is I am constantly having to create custom item specifics every time I change categories. I would much prefer to have a default that included all of my custom specifics options that are constant regardless of category.
You probably can’t respond to the last 2 questions, but Richard maybe you can bring this topic up to the appropriate department??
MechelleOn June 6, 2008 at 10:21 am Said:
@She
“It’s hard to tell how much you actually know, but that doesn’t have anything to do with your status as an eBay seller. Weren’t you leaving, anyway? Or have other venues not proven as lucrative and friendly as you hoped?”
Your comment demonstrates how much you do not know. I have on no occasion said I was leaving eBay to sell on another “alternative” venue. I said that I am opening my own web store outside of any auction venue, which I am. Regardless I am not an idiot that would jump out of eBay with out securing my store’s viability.
Also, this post has absolutely nothing to do with eBay.com it is about online classifieds. Again, you demonstrate how much you do not know.
Who referred to you as a troll? I have never seen you on this blog before? Maybe you are using another ID? Either way direct your bad attitude at someone else.
Back to this topic- oodles is a ridiculous name also. It fails to resonate any seriousness and doesn’t encourage me to shop or list on it.
AmberOn June 6, 2008 at 10:21 am Said:
No wonder a select few have the comments to yourselves. Nobody likes a troll pit. (Think about that before you try to call ME a troll. Like attracts like, perhaps?)
I’m assumming you posted “SHE” because you wanted a reaction.
(The very definition of a blog/board troll btw) :)
Richard took a slap at Implog– was it deserved? I’m sure you think it is.
The point being made is that we see initial posts on the blog with VERY few subsequent responses from Richard. That’s not how MOST blogs work. And, seeing how he has been touted as a “social guru” by the press, it begs the question of “Why?”
This post is completely OT, but then, so was yours.
I don’t think online classifieds are a substitute for auctions or other forms of ecommerce. Craigslist succeeds because it has a completely different focus than eBay. Any company owned by or associated with eBay has a significant disadvantage. The brand is tainted and carries with it so much baggage that it hurts the smaller companies carried under its umbrella. Sad but true.
AmberOn June 6, 2008 at 10:26 am Said:
@Mechelle,
I think we all know that the name was a poor choice.
People respond better to brands they can spell. Marketing 101.
Oodles has a slight advantage there, at least. And I think has a bit more fun.
I agree, though, that silly or hard to spell names don’t inspire confidence in the professional seller. Hard to take something seriously when the name of the site leaves you confused or unimpressed.
SandiOn June 6, 2008 at 10:33 am Said:
realize Kijiji is free, but that ultimately is not enough, as there is a time investment.
It’s free now. It has always been speculated free was to obtain the growth. It will not be free forever.
Google Checkout did the same thing. They made it free for quite a while as they grew. It gave people a chance to try it out with no costs. Paypal should take note of just how much easier Google checkout is for buyers. I personally prefer using it to pay for items when a seller does not have their own merchant account.
This really is a tougher call than Mr Herbst was implying.
ebay is making their move to overcome craiglist. Meg said previously that ebay was more than open to simply buying craiglist, but the powers at craiglist said no thanks.
So ebay develops a plan to be bigger than craiglist – crush it so to speak. One does have to wonder if some of the seller changes might be in fact a means to get those sellers to move to Kijiji – especially given how ebay always uses the term community in relationship to Kijiji – and Richard has already had two posts regarding Kijiji.
I suspect ebay felt their “name” was enough to overpower Craiglist, of course they are not paying attention to what their “name” means to so many.
Kijiji is “more attractive” than craiglist, but design is personal choice. I am sure others like the look of craiglist better. I have only used craiglist once and that was to look for someone to cross country move some things.
ebay has lost my trust, I do not consider them ethical, therefore I would not be a buyer (or seller) on Kijiji. But that’s no big loss (at this time anyway) given I am not within the market segment that would use the services.
Lurch, it’s a personal call. Forunately we live in a country (for now anyway) that allows personal choices. There are companies I simply refuse to buy their products, GE comes to mind. My father refuses to buy Heintz products (and for a mustard freak like me, that’s a problem sometimes:-).
We are each free to make a statement amytime simply by not associating with coporations/organizations that we issues with, or that we do not support their business practices.
DaveyOn June 6, 2008 at 11:06 am Said:
>> It’s free now. It has always been speculated free was to obtain the growth. It will not be free forever. <<
Exactly. Paypal was once free, remember, with even a $5 giveaway when you used it. EBay was also in this mold initially, and remained low cost for a while until the hook was set.
While looking to invest time in the venue, as Lurch mentioned, I have to ask myself what the motives of the site are to anticipate its future as it affects return on my investment. With Craigslist, the management has a very good track record over a long time that suggests their motives, likely future of the site, and response to the community’s needs from the site. Nor, are they trying to make Craigslist an every-growing empire as the recognize their niche. Likewise eBay has a track record, although that track record is anything but stability–disruption is more appropriate (or at least it has severely disrupted me!) as it suits their needs, not mine. I don’t care to learn and use a site that then turns on me when it is to their advantage.
LurchOn June 6, 2008 at 11:24 am Said:
“Lurch, it’s a personal call. Forunately we live in a country (for now anyway) that allows personal choices.”
Yeah – but I was trying to give them an opportunity to sell it on me. For example, there’s one site locally who sought us out to include our events on their calendar. They had low traffic and not a lot of eyes, so I asked them pretty much the same question. Their response was to provide some info on *who* looks at their listings. While the total number was smaller, who was looking at it was a perfect demographic, so we did start listing there. And it’s led to some interesting cooperative efforts. I really was curious what kind of motivators they would have to list for using it.
Are approximate numbers of viewers (not listings)/demographics available by location?
Thanks again!
SharonOn June 6, 2008 at 12:20 pm Said:
@Implog
Now we’ve both been slapped. Mine didn’t hurt too much.
Don’t know why Richard offered to check my dashboard for me, then I never heard from him again.
Probably has to spend most of his time trying to track down answers, hopefully not from Customer Service.
I think Richard is probably a nice guy but he is in a job I sure wouldn’t want. Can you imagine trying to get the answers for some of our questions from the Ebay Execs?
LurchOn June 6, 2008 at 12:38 pm Said:
Ah – never mind my prior question. I just noticed each ad shows number of views. From the looks of it, you definitely need some awareness building in the Sacramento area… You may have 63 million overall, but that also might be from all 29 countries shown.
Also, the total ads for events is not correct. For Sacto, it shows 28, when it really is 13.
HenriettaOn June 6, 2008 at 1:02 pm Said:
SHE was a woman with the secret of immortality (Ryder Haggard) and came to a dusty end.
Kijiji doesn’t work here, Oahu only, no outer island sites. Craigslist does cover outer islands.
I am not anti-Walmart per se, but would not bother because Craigslist works just fine and I have had enough new learning processes & disruption to cope with recently and am quite tired of it.
HenriettaOn June 6, 2008 at 1:05 pm Said:
@ LURCH
Another glitch maybe? Counts are difficult to monitor I know because the core site has always had conflicting totals too.
AmberOn June 6, 2008 at 1:05 pm Said:
Lurch,
Sack-o-tomatoes, eh?
We get part of our news from there.
The problem with ALL of the online classifieds is that they only work for urban areas. Really. Our local paper is *gasp* a much better source for advertising–even if we have to pay for it. With today’s gas prices ($4.51/gallon here), driving 80-100 miles to an urban center just isn’t feasible.
AmberOn June 6, 2008 at 1:07 pm Said:
LOL@Henrietta,
That was my first thought too.
I wonder how many people have read that one–it’s a bit old fashioned. ;)
HenriettaOn June 6, 2008 at 1:24 pm Said:
This is nitpicking but as a potential consumer I believe it is a valid point.
I live most of the year in Hawaii. My other residence is in SD.
I realize these aren’t population hubs.
You have one Kijiji in Hawaii on Oahu, basically Honolulu. Maui is the next most heavily populated island followed by the Big Island and Kauai, no presence there.
You have one Kijiji in Sioux Falls with 303 offered and 45 wanted. Sioux Falls is 90 miles from where I live, I go once or twice a month usually trip pooling which is the way country folk do things.
There is nothing in Rapid City, or Pierre our state capital, the next two largest population centers, then Mitchell, Yankton, Brookings, Aberdeen, Huron, Watertown, reasonable sized towns, nothing.
What does it cost to add a few pages of standardized code for each of these locations?
If it is not there people can’t use it.
I just don’t get a feeling of permanent commitment on Kijiji, although I would congratulate you on the site design, lovely clean bright and easy on the eyes.
LisaOn June 6, 2008 at 1:39 pm Said:
When I read She’s post, the first thought that came to me was She might be Lorrie Norrington. Just a hunch.
I’ve used Craigslist and Oodles for years and love them both. I cannot remember how to spell Kijiji nor pronounce it, and I really don’t want to learn. But I’m biased.
oakteakOn June 6, 2008 at 7:15 pm Said:
I put a couple of things on Oodle-Walmart linking them to the site where they are being sold. It was easy and fun. I can’t say it made any difference, they’ve been on there for a couple of weeks but it’s one more thing for extra exposure, can’t hurt and it’s free.
PermacrisisOn June 7, 2008 at 6:53 pm Said:
How much you wanna bet Walmart is in it for the data stream– to “see firsthand what’s selling secondhand” & to see what people are willing to pay for it, to see where the demand is locally for stuff, and what the Wanteds are.
Think about it- tires, mowers, musical gear, kitchen appliances… knowing the what and where of 2ndhand pricing on these items could put them way ahead of, say, Target.
HenriettaOn June 8, 2008 at 1:20 am Said:
@implog
EVERYBODY who works for a corporation in any capacity where they are privy to confidential information or proprietary information, and in PR or any associated field is required to sign a confidentiality contract these days, and that is normal and reasonable. Even nannies to the rich and famous sign if they want the job and that is very understandable. Absolutely standard practice, and the contract itself is covered by confidentiality clauses too.
@ Lisa, dream on!
@ Sandi
GC is still free under certain circumstances, I use Ad Words and have Google Ads on the blog and my GC is free.
AND re Kijiji, how about this from the TOS:
Fees and Services. Using Kijiji is free, but we sometimes charge a fee for some of our services. Our fees are quoted in US Dollars, and we may change them from time to time. Our fees are non-refundable, and you are responsible for paying them when they’re due. If you don’t, we may limit your ability to use the services. If your payment method fails or your account is past due, we may collect fees owed using other collection mechanisms (for accounts over 180 days past due, we may deduct the amount owed from your PayPal account balance).
MechelleOn June 8, 2008 at 1:50 am Said:
Also, Google Checkout was up front about how long the service would be free, and they extended the time even.
Yes, Kijiji (is that right?) has just as many secret doors as eBay when it comes to fees. They also remain consistent in their use of threatening communication.
LisaOn June 8, 2008 at 7:50 am Said:
@Henrietta
I know.
Really good article on your Red Ink Diary site by Kevin T about the nasty phenomenon that Ebay has become. I think eventually enough sellers will tire of these negative restrictions and unfair practices and a new site will rise to the top who not only shows respect for individuals but knows how important it is for people to feel they are worth something or than a throw-away commodity.
Oh, and Kijiji, or however you spell it, haven’t checked it yet.
LisaOn June 8, 2008 at 7:52 am Said:
S/B-”Other than a throw-away commodity.”
Wish there was a preview post feature.
MelanieOn June 9, 2008 at 11:26 am Said:
Very interesting thoughts, everyone! (new here).
@Lisa – with all the people unhappy with ebay, one of the little guys is trying to step foot into the arena to see if we can maybe help the situation…I launched an online classifieds site about a year ago called Listasaurus.com, and we’re in the process of upgrading to add auctions.
We’re different because we offer video classifieds, and we also pay users to list their ads on our site (a bit of a twist!). We’ll also be allowing users to include video in their auctions, and paying them to list auctions.
So maybe there’s hope yet out there! We certainly do value our userbase, and while we hope to grow leaps and bounds, we don’t ever hope to become so big (i.e. corporate) that we lose sight of the value of our audience.
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