Knowing Where You Stand

Patricia1On 05.20.2008 at 9:11 pm Said:

Lurch - you’re wrong. I know that I depended on ebay to supplement my retirement funds - thankfully, I thought to start branching out a year ago and now I’m in a better position - not perfect but do-able. Many did not and do not know how. The elderly, the disabled, the stay at home moms, the out of work dads - its not a joke - its not rhetoric its just the truth. You have no idea just how many people depend on ebay….some totally depend on it. On the other hand, ebay management likes to push it as “fun” place - a happy place full of “excitement” - they speak of it as though it were the hot new ride at Disneyland …they have always ignored and made light of the fact that many people depend on it for a living. I can tell them that those people are dead serious about it…they not only take pride in what they’re doing, they are in dread that they may lose this opportunity! To them…its a bloodbath. Make no bones about that.

Spinach - come on now…they could have thought up a more business-like way to do this. You know that as well as I do. Okay, I agree that the ratings may have been artificially high but the retaliatoryies were nowhere near what they claimed….and who was doing the most manipulation? The sellers they should have rooted out years ago. They put out ratings for us specifically for that reason….what happened? Why couldn’t they follow thru? Because they just plain didn’t care. Have you ever reported a bad seller? If so, what happened? I’m betting nothing at all! This new surge to get rid of bad sellers is a LOT more than what they’re saying. I am still adamant that they are disillusioning small sellers and getting rid of them slowly by letting the buyers do the dirty work for them - whether its deserved or not! There’s no way they’ll protect sellers against bad buyers LOL NO WAY! Not one seller believes that. They want small sellers out - but at their leisure so they can replace them with large retailers. This is why 12 month powersellers are “trustworthy” and 10 years small sellers are not!

Kevin_TOn 05.20.2008 at 9:17 pm Said:

QUOTE from the Announcement Board:
“Also, the number of listings from any one seller will be limited to ten per page, unless the only available listings that remain are from the same seller. This change ensures that buyers will have a variety of sellers to choose from.”

I realise that this is designed to “prevent buyers from being overwhelmed by identical listings”, and understand this on new retail stock.

I list runs of similar OLD collectible items and subsidise my postage to encourage multiple purchases and multiple bidding. If for example I list a run of 30 x 1940’s to 1960’s tractor brochures (all different) and a collector simply searches “tractor brochure” will only 10 of my brochures show up in their search, or will they all show up because the titles are not identical? Would a search of Collectibles:Advertising:Agriculture for “brochure” have a similar effect?

If someone searches the word stereoview instead of browsing the category, will they only see ten from a seller who may be selling a hundred different stereoviews from an important 19th century collection?

This is not hypothetical, I am trying to gauge the impact that this will have on my cross border business. I have shipped 35 stereoviews to a UK buyer from a listing of 42 in one week. He was a collector of the subject covered by them, not of stereoviews, so would only have found them on a search not by browsing the category.

I guess the simple question is “does this screen out identical titles, or just the first ten that turn up with the SEARCH TERM in them?”.
Kind Regards, Kevin

Patricia1On 05.20.2008 at 9:35 pm Said:

I never have this problem with the type of things I list but I have, indeed, seen pages of prints or such by the same seller and they just go on and on and on and, frankly, I do find that annoying. If that is what they mean then I have to agree with them (a rarity for me)

LurchOn 05.20.2008 at 9:36 pm Said:

“You have no idea just how many people depend on ebay”

Um - no. I do realize that. I’ve been here literally since the beginning. Literally. However, an increase in negs is certainly not the equivalent of the bloody and violent slaughter of, say, 500,000 people. And why the heck do you think I’m saying it’s a joke? I’m not. But it’s not a “bloodbath” either, if you know anything about actual bloodbaths that have happened throughout history. Many people on the boards over the last few years like to talk about how eBay is raping people. Do you think an increase in fees is the same thing as an actual rape? I certainly do not.

So to you - from what you stated - an appropriate OR (more likely) inappropriate neg is the exact same thing as the actual mass, violent, bloody slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people (or even just thousands)? You just stated I’m wrong, so that’s what you’re saying, I think. I’m addressing the hyperbole. If you’ve bothered to read anything I’ve written here, which I’m thinking you’re not, I’m not defending the issue at hand. But it’s no “bloodbath,” either.

Patricia1On 05.20.2008 at 9:45 pm Said:

Lurch - good grief - I did not mean it literally as though actual killing were taking place. I do mean bloodbath in that seller reputations are being destroyed and some falsely! (now do you mean to tell me if you said something funny and I laughed and said you’re killing me…you’d call the paramedics? Hmmmmm?)

MechelleOn 05.20.2008 at 10:03 pm Said:

This is interesting- yet totally believable

So I called phone helpless today to ask what the logic was for still having neutrals as well as negatives, since they now count equally against sellers. Why not simplify and have just positive and negative?

He told me they are keeping neutral as a feedback option because some buyers who are not completely happy with their purchase just don’t feel right about leaving a negative for the seller, so neutral allows them to show minor dissatisfaction, without knowing they are hurting our stats! I KID YOU NOT, THAT’S WHAT HE TOLD ME!

Did anyone see the post where the account manager (no exactly sure what that is - I don’t have one) essentially told the seller to shut up and go back to work if she didn’t spend her time complaining about the shipping and feedback she wouldn’t be where she is right now? got to love that- pay the bastards check and he tells you to go back to work- unbelievable

LurchOn 05.20.2008 at 10:13 pm Said:

Patricia - No - because that’s always said laughingly, not hysterically and full of drama (like the quote I’m refering to).

Keep in mind (and I could be completely wrong), I *think* it is input such as this which helped enable eBay to ignore reasoned, rational and thoughtful input from other members over a number of years which would have *potentially* created a somewhat different future for eBay. If anyone thinks where we are at now, as far as eBay is concerned, happened overnight - well, they’re wrong. This has been building in a vast number of ways (some small, and some less small) over many, many years. And there are, in fact, some who essentially saw it coming in one form or another and DID try to contribute to alter this at a time where it MAY have been possible.

So yeah, this kind of “helpful” input bugs me.

Add to that: when you have known people who have not only survived actual bloodbaths, but also (in my case) at least one other who has contributed to them (and here I refer to a Vietnam vet involved in a particularly ugly one - who I heard committed suicide many years ago - which doesn’t surprise me, as he couldn’t quite get past his willing involvement in it), yeah, it also becomes a bit personally offensive. And yes, so do the rape references that pop up on the boards from time-to-time, knowing victims of this crime. And *particularly* given the fact that it really never does any good.

Kevin_TOn 05.20.2008 at 10:39 pm Said:

Patricia,
If someone was to list a run of 25 different watercolours by an important 19th century artist, do you believe that only ten should show up on a search of his name, or for that matter in the category?

I list runs of photographs by specific sought after photographers at times, or list runs of specific types of collectibles (including tractor and car brochures), they are all different and I try to make postage more viable to international buyers by listing such runs. Do you feel that this is innappropriate activity on Ebay?

I am interested, Kevin

Patricia1On 05.20.2008 at 10:43 pm Said:

Lurch - lighten up! - you and I both know I was not referring to an actual bloodbath. I can’t discuss with you when you take that tact.

I don’t believe for a minute that this happened over years - no….because over years they COULD have chose to root out the majority of bad sellers….but didn’t. Now, they go after the problem the way they always do…full bore, ham-fisted and wanting immediate action. THAT’s what I mean by bloodbath! I’m sorry if you can’t see it that way - it has absolutely nothing to do with rape, or vietnam for goodness sake! If that’s the only way one can use bloodbath - then your mighty limited. Please…don’t nitpick with me….and there certainly is nothing personal about it…unless that is what you chose to believe.

Patricia1On 05.20.2008 at 10:49 pm Said:

Kevin - correct me if I’m wrong but they’re saying only 10 on a page? Then yes, I would not like to see the whole page taken over by the same seller - heaven knows I especially do NOT want to see it in the arts category where listings are often $20.00 plus and every artist is fighting for exposure. Under those conditions I would have to say 10 per page is more than enough. I’ve seen pages taken up by the same seller - especially under artwork offered by dealers - they are usually prints sometimes of the same painting and they just go on and on and I really don’t think its fair. So, if that’s what you mean (I’m still not entirely clear on it) I would have to go along with them.

Kevin_TOn 05.20.2008 at 10:59 pm Said:

I guess I just slash my listing of runs to a third, and increase my postage charges. Certainly buyers get more active on runs, I still get the bidding wars on runs of related collectibles that doesn’t happen on individual items. Buyers seem to like genuine collections listed as a run, but if they only see some of the listings from now on, it defeats the purpose.

Kevin

Patricia1On 05.20.2008 at 11:10 pm Said:

Kevin - I really don’t know….I’m not the one to discuss this with because my categories are kind of unique and I only list in the arts categories. You know though - perhaps you can make up for it in the title…you know like put something the same in every one of them that will make them look like yours? Don’t know if I’m explaining myself clearly. I put my name in each and every title so there is no problem with customers picking my work out of a list. Don’t know if that’s of any help to you at all…

LurchOn 05.20.2008 at 11:27 pm Said:

Well Patricia/Sandi (didn’t realize you were the same person, actually): you can believe what you want. You’re right. Being hysterical IS helpful and really garners the attention of eBay. And yes, I guess you’re right — this did just happen overnight.

“because over years they COULD have chose to root out the majority of bad sellers”

Um - well, yeah. That would be just ONE part of “This has been building in a vast number of ways (some small, and some less small) over many, many years.” which you stated prior to the above quote, which was “I don’t believe for a minute that this happened over years - no”

So you do believe it happened over a number of years, if just on the basis of this one issue. There are more, however, where eBay has either fostered, or sat idly by while the “community” has degraded.

I won’t mention how eBay implicitly (but not *necessarily* with malice at the time) pitted the My eBay 2.0 beta testers against the users. I won’t mention how when seller scams appeared in maybe around 1999 (or possibly earlier? don’t recall), eBay sat idly by. How eBay started to break down direct, helpful, useful, and oftentimes, fun communications with users - well not sure when exactly anymore (remember the days of “Skippy”?). When eBay started to de-emphasize the fun of the site, which is what built it to begin with, in favor of commerce at any cost no matter what the damage? How in so many categories, item specifics created a loss of sales for many - and an acquistion loss for buyers (so much so that they actually backed them out of a few categories, but not all that they should have)? When eBay pulled nearly all pink interaction from discussion boards whose prior presence overall fostered more goodwill than they could even dream about today? Yeah, that all just happened at the end of last year or so. I could go on and on and on. They NEVER adapted to their growing userbase with that userbase in mind (note: that’s an overly simplified statement). They could have, and still retained ways to engage folks, keep fraud in check, actually communicate and foster goodwill between eBay and ALL users as well as sellers and buyers. But they chose to not even try. You’re right - it all happened very, very recently. There was no precedent or build-up to this.

Feedback? Yeah, set up a system that is ripe for abuse from both sides, then set it loose on folks who (at the time, at least) were primarily collectors. The collector mindset will want to collect. I know - I’m one. I saw that coming from the outset. My first feedback was received sometime in 1996. I didn’t bother leaving my first until around July 1997 because it was becoming so important to people. I’ve posted here before about this (um, I think here) - I tried to sort of say something at the time it was introduced, and everyone said, “pshaw.” You think “feedback first” came out of nowhere? No. People view it as reflective of them as a person. That was destined to happen from the beginning.

And ok, partricia/sandi - I won’t nitpick with you. Fine. You’re right. It’s a bloodbath.

Statements like this do tend to deter from the fact that there is certainly some (feedback) abuse happening right now, and I would like to see some valid, accurate and raw (non-manipulated) stats to see if, in fact, there really is an increase, or if it simply appears that way due to focused reporting. Not sure we’ll be seeing that, though. Not sure I’ll be getting answers to the questions about Auctiva and the new policies.

Then again, I was fully waiting for you to respond with something along the lines of, “it doesn’t matter - eBay won’t listen anyway.” In which case, my response to that would have been, “yeah, you got me there…”

If you use hysterical metaphors in the future, I’ll try to not pick on them.

David WombacherOn 05.20.2008 at 11:42 pm Said:

How about Peer to peer?

Let’s have peer to peer DSR’s.
International sellers should not be judged by the same yardstick as non international.
We are the brave and have the ability to provide the buyer with an exceptional service/experience. Especially if we have 4.4 or higher across the board.
My lowest right now is 4.7 which is just down from 4.8.
I think the culprit is one new buyer that left 2 comments who lives in Latvia.
He paid $7 and it cost me $5+ to ship.

Thank you,

David Wombacher thecamerahunter and camerahunter

Mark ClassicOn 05.21.2008 at 1:23 am Said:

Hello Richard

Your urgent attention needed.

Question regarding the SNP policy Richard.

In the UK we have just had the SNP rating dropped from 90 days to thirty days.

This has resulted in lots of sellers being suspended for thirty days.

Now some of these sellers have 40 feedback in the last 30 days (as a sample). One negative and one neutral.

They are now suspended.

Whilst Richard Ambrose on the UK site has taken responsibility for this change (I believe), would Ebay.com care to comment on why it has just suspened a lot of my potential buyers?

After all Buyers are Sellers too (that is how Ebay have grown).

The other downside to this policy change is that they are completely banned from Ebay for 30 days, cutting them off from communication with their current buyers, which means a high probability of problems that cannot be resolved and further negs.

The advice from Ebay is to improve the ratings during those thirty days, yet without access to their accounts and in effect being “locked out” of Ebay, how can they do anything?

Does Ebay want to lose all low volume sellers (and their buying habits, because if they are treated like this, do you really think they will keep using the site)?

Or do they just want lots of new ids all the time which is a scammers paradise?

As this would appear the only solution to the thirty day ban.

Mark