Friday, May 16th, 2008
Feedback on Feedback to Feedback
All,
Thanks again for your kind words and emails. Sorry for the delay in getting this to you. As promised, I managed to spend time with Brian Burke this week and he tackled a lot of the follow-up questions that came through from the “Accountability” post written last week.
The following follow-up questions and answers are shown in no particular order. The questions, and the prior comments by Brian they refer to, are indented and shaded below. The new answers follow each shaded box.
I realize there were more questions asked but I wanted to get at least some addressed sooner rather than later. Thanks to Brian for taking the time to sit down with me again to discuss questions raised here on Ink.
Cheers,
RBH
Please re-round the circle squared by eBay President Lorrie Norrington on the eBay Announcement Board on March 20, 2008 titled “Update For Sellers”.
Norrington seems to be attempting to address the concerns of sellers who fear a neg from a non paying bidder. She attempts to mitigate the new “neg sellers only” policy by writing:
“What we have determined is that if the buyer does not specifically call out poor seller performance, item condition or transaction problems during the UPI process, eBay will remove the seller’s negative or neutral feedback — retroactively.”
This makes no sense. Sellers do not send items won in auctions before receiving payment. How can a buyer who leaves a neg be justified by claiming a problem with “item condition” for an item never sent, received nor seen? Again, sellers DO NOT send items without first receiving payment.
While Norrington’s “solution” may be boss pleasing “disruptive innovation”, it flat out makes no sense in the real world of selling on eBay.
This policy is designed to address a specific issue raised at the eCommerce Forum in January. Specifically, sellers complained that the current protections for sellers with the UPI process - the buyer must fail to respond completely - was inadequate, since all a buyer had to do was enter a single character or comment that they had no intention of paying, and any negative or neutral FB left by the buyer would remain.
Sellers shouldn’t send items prior to receiving payment. But if a buyer is complaining about the product condition in the UPI process, it’s a good indication that the buyer did pay.
Buyers who respond and respond in a manner that clearly indicates the seller was not at fault, such as “I found another one” or “my spouse is in the hospital so I can’t pay” shouldn’t be negatively impacted by a buyer’s negative Feedback.
However, if the buyer states, “I refuse to pay via Western Union” or “I just sent payment” or “I paid” (NOTE, some sellers file false claims, those caught are suspended) or “I did a charge back because you refused to send me a refund for the damaged product” would result in negative or neutral Feedback remaining.
A buyer who is referencing product condition, not receiving the product, etc. is a very good indicator that the buyer sent money.
We will continue to evaluate this policy.
We used a really simple definition when determining exactly what constituted retaliatory negative feedback. It was strictly a user who received a negative feedback and subsequently left a negative feedback.Severely flawed research error. The definition of retaliatory feedback” is based on an assumption not a fact.
With millions and millions of transactions happening we have to study behavior over time in order to identify trends and to determine whether or not a specific trend needs addressing. The fact is that 4 years ago, sellers would leave a negative after a buyer had left a negative twice as frequently than a buyer would and today it is eight times as frequently. That is a significant change in behavior and one that needed to be addressed. Again, we examined a lot of alternatives before coming to the conclusion that the feedback system needed to change. We learned that when a buyer gets a negative feedback in the eBay marketplace, they discontinue participating in the marketplace and it’s not healthy for anyone.
In January we mentioned that we’d block buyers from leaving negative or neutral Feedback for 3 days for sellers “with a track record.” Since January, we’ve made the decision to increase the wait period to 7 days and define “track record” as active PowerSellers who have been on eBay for at least 12 months.
What about NON-Powersellers? Does this mean the buyer could leave us a negative IMMEDIATELY? Or does it mean they can do it within 3 days, and only PS get the 7 day protection? This needs immediate clarification. Richard, PLEASE get a clarification on this.
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Why does the cooling off period, given it is so short a timeframe, only apply to PS? Why not to those who have been on the site for years? Why not to everyone?
Right now only PowerSellers get the 7-day protection. This has replaced the 3-day block rule introduced back in January. Suspension types and frequencies of suspensions were analyzed and it was determined that PowerSellers were the safest population of users to single out for this protection. If safety issues arise we could restrict this beyond the 12-month, PowerSeller distinction and, conversely, if we see positive results and gain confidence in the 7-day protection model, we could expand to other sellers. I don’t see this happening in the next 6 months though.
Richard, while you’re at it, can you please get an explanation as to how a waiting period adversely affects buyers anyway? Sellers have to give buyers 7 days to pay before they can file a UID. Why not give ALL sellers the same 7 day “benefit of the doubt?”
Essentially, we’re trying to balance marketplace safety with seller satisfaction. We want buyers to know immediately about a potentially bad or fraudulent buyer experience to better avoid repeat occurrences.
The way we’re going to hold buyers accountable is through private reporting from sellers; through enhancing the tools that we’ve given sellers to help protect them from buyers.What enhancements? Here’s the thing — the only thing that I’ve ever found helpful on feedback left for buyers is utilizing their feedback received when someone is slow in paying (ie, I’m not sure if they will follow through). If they have negs for non-payment, I’ll file a UPI a bit faster. If they don’t, I give them a lot more time/leeway. Will sellers have access to info on whether UPI reports have been made against buyers?
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What enhancements to which tools?
Sellers will not have direct access to info on whether UPI reports have been made against buyers. However, there is a buyer requirement tool that will allow sellers to block buyers with a UPI track record of 2 or more items. We’ve also introduced a seller reporting hub.
We’re going to take a look at what buyers are saying in the UPI console and remove it if it is arbitrary.
Who is going to be doing this? What will be the guidelines as to what is “arbitrary?”
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Will the process of reporting a buyer be reviewed by an actual person or a bot? Will we receive canned answers?
Customer support representatives will be reviewing all reports. There will be canned answers associated with general issues raised for the hundreds and hundreds of cases reported. Reports will be handled on a case by case basis and will be deemed arbitrary if there is no mention of dissatisfaction with the seller or an unwillingness to complete the transaction with the seller.
Does this new PowerSeller policy constitute a barrier to entry? And what about seasonal sellers who cannot enjoy PS benefits because they sell for a few months each year (but most definitely qualify PS, they just are not onsite long enough each year to qualify)? And what about new sellers? Do they become targets with no protection? Do you guys not want new sellers?
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Do you see a place for the small time seller on eBay in the future? I would love to stay but I am being pushed away with every calculated change and it seems many others are also. Is this what eBay is counting on?
These changes don’t have anything to do with the size of the seller. They are focused on the buying experience. With regard to DSRs and feedback, smaller sellers are actually the folks in a position to take an advantage of the new changes because they already provide a more personalized, attentive service to the individual buyer… helping ensure positive feedback after a transaction is completed.
We want all sellers to feel welcome on eBay and the new PowerSeller policy should not be seen as a barrier to entry, rather it should be seen as another incentive to sell more on eBay.
Will anything be done to ensure the 12-month period does not backfire on anyone?
There will inevitably be a small group of folks that are negatively effected by the 12-month window but again, we think that recent performance and activity is a much better indicator of what a buyer can expect to experience than a performance rating from 7-8 years ago.
A couple of months ago I received an email saying that a positive feedback had been removed because a buyer had been NARU’d after a relatively short time on Ebay.
On the Australian site my feedback now reads 99.9% for the last 12 months in spite of the fact that I have not received a neutral or neg for about 8 years, and I have been on a full 100% for about 6 or 7 years. I have never entered into mutually withdrawn feedback.
Please ask Mr Burke whether feedback that has been completely removed by Ebay is being counted as “non positive” feedback. If not, can you please ask him to review my feedback and clarify why it is calculated at 99.9% for the last 12 months on the Australian site. I am not asking for any adjustment to my feedback, only a clarification (you know, accountability) - I can supply a friends user ID with no neutrals or neg’s in the last 12 months and 4.9 dsr’s that currently rates at 99.5% if he would like to review that as well.
This is likely a data anomaly - with over 7 billion Feedback we occasionally have these come up. But since the seller is in US, I would ask that they wait until we update the US site next week. If it is still inaccurate, I can have a database engineer look into it - but I bet it’s accurate next week.
EBay is accepting the unverified opinion of buyers a fact, seller’s loose status based on the unverified feedback and DSR”s that buyers leave. Will eBay accept the reports of extortion and buyer bad behavior from sellers as fact without verifying those reports? Or will they only count against the buyer after being reviewed? A public system of accountability for sellers with no review of the facts and private backdoor accountability systems for buyers with a review of facts is not an equal and just system. So ask Brian if seller reports about buyers will be reviewed. Will sellers need to provide proof of extortion?
Sellers reports of buyers will be reviewed thoroughly. Extortion is very difficult to prove so the more proof a seller can provide, the better off we’ll all be. It will be easier to take action against buyers that have a pattern of behavior rather than a single instance of reported extortion - again because it is very difficult to prove a single instance of extortion.
In order to cut down on potential extortion situations we’re reducing the number of days someone can leave feedback from 90 to 60 days.
*How* does this cut down on potential extortion situations?
The window of time in which a buyer could resort to extortion has been shortened. For example, in the past a buyer could wait until 85 days after a transaction to practice extortion. The longer the time period; the longer the opportunity. We’ve reduced that window of opportunity considerably.
If the buyer did not pay, shouldn’t the “burden of proof” be on the buyer to report the reason why he / she did not pay?
Better yet, why not allow “private” reporting by the buyer to let eBay know that there was a good reason that they didn’t pay the seller?
What percentage of buyers actually have a valid reason for nonpayment? How about some eBay “statistics” to give us a better understanding of eBay’s desire to protect this group of eBay buyers who NEED the ability to leave negative feedback for a seller that never received payment.
We need any information regarding potential fraud to be public, and to be public fast. With regard to statistical information, Brian indicated that he would get UPI stats for me to share on the blog.
Tagged: brian+burke, buyers, detailed+seller+rationgs, dsr, ebay, ebay.com, ecommerce, feedback, Marketplace, online+marketplace, sellers
Patricia1On 05.18.2008 at 6:24 pm Said:
Yes, Lisa, I’ve been on Etsy for a couple of years now. I really don’t put the time into it that I should but they are a great place for handmades and some artwork too. You need to spend some time in their forum and network. My major earner these days seems to be my own website. Just tonight I got a commission for 3 good sized paintings from an old customer. I keep pushing it and even offering free shipping from there - which does bring in some buyers. As for Etsy, it really is clean and well run site 
I just had an NPB there - no problem, Etsy simply took the FVF off my bill with no questions asked. Now, that’s refreshing!
CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.18.2008 at 6:31 pm Said:
@ Patricia
“I have a feeling they thought this would all blow over by now and everything would be as it was. They really do believe they are the only online site that has the power to draw in the buyers. Yet, I don’t believe they fully expected to see so many sellers so angry and ready to pack up and leave.”
Yes, eBay fully expected a lot of sellers to leave. Donahoe even stated in a interview, and I paraphrasing here, that he is aware that eBay has a very vocal community who will be very passionate and upset over the changes. He said that he still believes that once sellers have taken the time to calm down and evalutate the situation rationally, that he is sure that sellers will realize eBay provides the best value and traffic for their businesses. I believe he stated that in an interview shortly after the latest fee increases were announced.
eBay is also planning to role out several other changes. These changes are only the beginning. eBay is planning to completely change the enviroment, feeling, and view of their marketplace. It only makes sense that thoses sellers who do not meet this new vision will be weeded out and ultimately extinct on eBay. Of course, they will easily be replaced by sellers who can thrive in the new enviroment.
“I’ve been to places like powersellersunite where they show charts of listings on other auction sites. Just eyeballing those listings I come to easily over 7 million listings on other sites - all lost business for ebay ….and growing almost daily!”
Increases in listings on those sites does not equate into the number of sales. I also read the forums and have read time and time again of sellers who left eBay in hopes of greener pastures, only to come back to eBay because those other sites have no traffic and no sales. For those who sell new items at fixed prices, there are viable venues outside of eBay. However for those selling collectibles, antiques, used goods, and garage sale/thrift store finds, the sucessful pickings for other selling venues are extremely thin.
“I don’t believe for one minute they’d get rid of a seller simply because he doesn’t leave feedback or doesn’t leave it first.”
Of course they will. They want the buyer to have an excellent experience. To eBay that means feedback first too. There are already several sellers who have changed to leaving feedback first, do you really believe that eBay wants to keep on the type of sellers that are unwilling to comply with their new vision? People said the same thing when eBay implimented the 5% buyer dissatisfaction rate restrictions/suspensions of sellers they believed were creating problems for buyers. Reading the forums during that time, I can assure you that eBay had a no nonsense, no compromise attitude towards sellers who fell subject to that. The message and resulting consequences were very clear - shape up or ship out. eBay lost a lot of sellers during that time, but it didn’t matter, since those were the very ones they wanted to go away.
eBay even stated at the Washington D.C. conference that eBay had enough sellers - too many in fact. They needed more buyers and that is why they were making all of the changes focused on serving buyers best - not sellers.
spinach.chinOn 05.18.2008 at 6:46 pm Said:
If your contention of their manipulation of the feedback is in an effort to resemble Amazon’s feedback ratings - then you’re wrong they are stupid.
It is indeed their intent, and I don’t know how it can be seen any other way. Amazon is their #1 competitor, and they can basically do no wrong when it comes to ecommerce, it seems, so you can bet that eBay will try to emulate them in any way they are able.
eBay is not Amazon (nor do I believe they are attempting to be) eBay members may have a feedback system 0-100%, but in reality we measure feedback in the 99-100% range (and so does eBay and PayPal, which is why the PayPal coverage is significantly reduced at 98% ratings) for the eBay community to suddenly find themselves having to shop from 98, 97, 96, 95% feedback we are going to witness/experience the reaction that will be culture shock creating a very negative perception among eBay members
No doubt this is the case. Donahoe and the higher ups have quite clearly indicated before that sellers should prepare to lose their lily white feedback ratings. Not only do I believe that it will happen, but it is clear that eBay EXPECTS that it will happen.
and I guarantee there will be a substantial decrease in purchases.
I don’t have the exact quote or article in front of me, but Donahoe stated once that he expects something like a 10 to 15% drop in listings - or something to that effect. I would say that’s a “substantial decrease”, and eBay was expecting that as well.
So, if your argument is correct than it is just another example of eBay having no clue about the culture of its marketplace and totally missed the mark in understanding the audience- the eBay community, and will pay dearly for their ignorance.
I expect that this will eventually be the case. eBay probably believes that they can weather the storm, and eventually come out the other side a “newly invented eBay”.
My guess is they are over-estimating their ability to come out of this unscathed.
spinach.chinOn 05.18.2008 at 6:58 pm Said:
Just as an example of how eBay is attempting to emulate Amazon, one only needs to look at how feedback numbers are structured now when you view them as a buyer. Amazon shows 1 month, 3 months, 1 year, and lifetime numbers, and eBay now shows 1 month, 6 month, 1 year, and lifetime.
Do you think that’s a coincidence?
Patricia1On 05.18.2008 at 7:09 pm Said:
@ crunchy - then we will have to agree to disagree. I can’t see ebay weeding out sellers for such a paltry reason. Buyers and sellers don’t really mean a thing to ebay - only revenue does. Now, they feel coddling buyers may boost sales - when they see that doesn’t happen, the buyer coddling will be dropped like a hot potato in favor of another tact. In all my years with ebay I’ve noticed that they say one thing while meaning quite another. If their business hurts in any way they will hide it till the end - always putting on an air of complete success! They will never admit defeat in any way. That’s a given. Yes, you are right that sales are not the same on other sites as they are on ebay but its only a matter of time. Sellers are learning its not enough to simply leave ebay and list elsewhere - they must also persuade their buyers to follow. It will happen and I feel sellers will keep at it until it DOES happen. They have to because there is no real future for them on the ebay site even if ebay means to keep some of them. They will be milked for fees until they’re forced to leave too. So…it really doesn’t matter because in the end - for the future of internet sales - these sellers must succeed in weaning their buyers off ebay or quit selling altogether 
MechelleOn 05.18.2008 at 7:11 pm Said:
I agree they have definitely over estimated their position that they are the only game in town, and I’m not referring to other options for sellers - there are many options for buyers to shop from, and if they feel they can no longer gage the reliability/safety of purchasing from sellers on eBay they will shop else where.
For me- even knowing why there is a sudden drop in feedback ratings I will not feel comfortable purchasing from people with feedback ratings below 99% unless I already have a history with the seller.
If you think about it eBay has actually hidden the sellers that should be booted out rather than expose them. So there may in fact be an increase in disputes and not a decrease as they imagine or at least express they believe will happen. All of those risky sellers with the feedback to absorb these changes and come out with the equivalent feedback rating as a smaller seller will likely benefit from many more sales, because buyers are in fact more comfortable buying from what appears to be a stable established seller. Unfortunately, this will likely result in many dissatisfied buyers opening disputes, filing charge backs, and worse coming away from eBay with a negative opinion never to return again.
Over time these sellers might hit the point of suspension, but they will have left a wake of very dissatisfied customers who will not return to eBay. If the bad experience with the seller wasn’t enough to make them turn away from eBay altogether, when they learn from PayPal that coverage was only up to 200 dollars, because the sellers feedback rating was 98% they will for sure never click into eBay again. They will likely never use PayPal again either- people don’t like feeling/being betrayed.
Patricia1On 05.18.2008 at 7:18 pm Said:
@ spinach - ebay may try to emulate Amazon but they want to do it without the sweat-equity Amazon puts into their site. I’m afraid ebay is looking only at the facade of Amazon’s business model and not the work they must put into it to arrive at the spot where they are now. If that is ebay’s aim, then I would have to say that underneath it all - Ebay is looking at Amazon’s profits and the fact they won top spot in last years holiday season. Those may be the things driving ebay to become more of a retail site….without the work, I see only failure. So, I’m hoping against hope that that is not ebay’s plan.
Its kind of like the difference between an original Rembrandt painting and a copy of a Rembrandt painting quickly printed on canvas. They may both look the same from afar but the latter is practically worthless and that’s how people treat it.
CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.18.2008 at 7:50 pm Said:
“I can’t see ebay weeding out sellers for such a paltry reason. Buyers and sellers don’t really mean a thing to ebay - only revenue does.”
Patricia, I agree that the only thing that matters to eBay is revenue and that is why they will have no problem losing these sellers who fail to conform to the new changes. They feel these sellers are costing eBay and other sellers on the marketplace revenue.
Just review the changes made and eBay’s stated reasons for doing so.
For instance, one of the reasons why eBay gave for buyers leaving and never returning was negative feedback. Therefore, eBay eliminated the ability of seller’s to leave negative feedback.
eBay said buyers did not like high shipping costs, so they are reducing the listing visibility for those sellers that they have determined are charging too much.
eBay said buyers don’t like the uncertainty of trusting a seller with money prior to receiving the item. eBay’s answer was PayPal required to be offered by all new sellers, and the potential for a 21 day hold period for transactions and sellers that they consider are risky.
These are all changes directly towards the goal of encouraging more people to buy on eBay. None of them have any consideration or concern for the potential decrease of sellers in their community.
Myself and tons of other sellers stopped selling on eBay back in February. No, I never participated in any boycott. I just decided selling on eBay right now in light of the instability was simply not a smart business decision. I have not heard that one of those sellers, nor I, have received any inquiry or concern from eBay as to why we are no longer listing on their venue.
I was helping out one seller who became caught in the 21 day hold fiasco, and I can testify to the fact that the threat of him no longer selling on eBay did nothing to change eBay’s or PayPal’s mind. Another seller on eBay, who sells movie posters as a Power Seller, threatened to leave eBay completely, and has since only reduced listing there significantly. Has the reduction in revenue from his listings changed eBay’s mind? No. He is still on the boards expressing his displeasure with eBay, but is still selling there.
As was pointed out by another poster, eBay even announced that they fully expected to see a decline in their revenue while the changes occur.
I suppose we could disagree on whether these changes will ultimately work out for eBay, but I doubt there is anyway to dismiss the actions eBay has already taken. I’m not referring to announcing policy changes. I’m referring to the actual effects testified by users who have actually fell victim to the enforcement of these changes. I doubt any of the sellers who had their accounts restricted and ultimately suspended would agree that the changes are simply eBay double talk. I do not believe any sellers dealing with the 21 day hold would either.
One thing eBay is right about is that there will always be sellers ready to list there. In fact if eBay is able to pull off their re-invention successfully and the environment becomes better for selling and buying, then I will more than happily go back there to sell again.
It will be interesting to read the eBay Seller Central board tomorrow to see if any seller’s report abuse of the new feedback system by buyers.
SandiOn 05.18.2008 at 8:08 pm Said:
I am a buer who has had 4 “Not As Described ” this month alone! I had 3 last month!
Wow, I am sorry you have had such bad luck. You are having problems with about 35% of your purchases, that’s definately not the norm.
You should report any feedback with swear words, ebay will remove. On the same note, sellers can report some of your remarks as well as they too violate the feedback policy.
In the future, your negatives left would be more effective if you stick to facts vs name calling and all caps, e.g. Received item not as described, seller refused to correct.
Again, sorry you have had such a high percentage of problems.
Patricia1On 05.18.2008 at 8:10 pm Said:
@ Crunchy - I’m really not interested in hearing ebay’s theory of why buyers left ebay. Talk to my neighbors and they will say “ebay? you can’t trust them the place is full of fraud”. Ebay’s reputation has nothing to do with whether or not buyers get feedback - it has all to do with the frauds and scammers who have been allowed to run rampant for years on that site. They’ve festered and grown because they have not been policed and in many cases have actually been protected. Years ago I was on ebay’s Arts Community Watch - I have no idea if that still exists. We would check the listings and report frauds and scammers - some of them were reported so many times it was almost a joke. We were then told the larger art sellers had ebay advocates who spoke for them…well, I quit soon afterward. I felt I was simply spinning my wheels - many of the others did too. I still stand adamant that not giving feedback is the least of their worries - being a good seller should be uppermost and not whether or not that good seller leaves feedback. I buy regulary on Amazon - mostly books and tapes….there, sellers cannot leave feedback! They can answer feedback only - on their own feedback page and buyers have no feedback rating - at least none that I can see. Whether or not a seller leaves feedback should be the least of ebay’s worries - if its not, then I fear for them and their future - they’re trying to put a tiny bandaid on a gaping wound.
MechelleOn 05.18.2008 at 8:31 pm Said:
@spinach.chin
Just as an example of how eBay is attempting to emulate Amazon, one only needs to look at how feedback numbers are structured now when you view them as a buyer. Amazon shows 1 month, 3 months, 1 year, and lifetime numbers, and eBay now shows 1 month, 6 month, 1 year, and lifetime.
As someone who has shopped Amazon many times for several years I have never once left feedback, and actually never realized there was an option until reading posts from people who sale on Amazon as well over the past few months. What I have also learned from reading posts is that Amazon stays out of the feedback and does not have a system that burns the sellers negative image for eternity and actually recommends sellers contact the buyer to work it out and possibly have the feedback removed.
Maybe the appearance of the feedback layout is similar, but the philosophy of the systems are as far from each other as can be imagined. eBay’s elimination of mutual withdraw certainly does not leave even the smallest resemblance to Amazon’s feedback system if the imagination could have been stretched enough before to make a comparison.
If eBay is attempting to become ezom than once again they have demonstrated they live in a little box that is so incredibly arrogant that they have not even taken the time to understand their perceived competition, and will pay for that as well.
I fail to see where these two highly contrasting markets are in competition. eBay’s decline in growth is not a result of Amazons growth. eBay forgot what its marketplace niche is and has manipulated the system trying to be make it grow faster than it naturally could. They have sold their soles to the Devil for a dirty buck gained off of deviant members assaulting both buyers and sellers. As a result, the marketplace deviants with the aid of eBay have alienated its members which has resulted in a decline in growth. They have over priced their services causing an increase in the market price for goods to be sold. With near equivalent pricing, the increased frequency of being scammed, and the failure for eBay/PayPal to protect the consumer buyers and sellers have left, and others are scared off from ever experiencing eBay at all. None of this has a damn thing to do with Amazon’s presence in online shopping venue. Amazon does not share any characteristics with eBay, so if eBay feels it is being out competed by Amazon they have only created a delusion to evade the fact that they killed the marketplace, they halted the growth, they are what is causing the decrease. This would have taken place whether Amazon existed or not.
eBay’s problem is flat out impatient lazy greed. They would be more likely to succeed in becoming a venue similar to Amazon if they simply created a new venue and let it drive its own growth. There is no makeover that can redefine the eBay name making it more like Amazon they have dirtied the name to much. The most contrasting aspect with eBay and Amazon is one’s name has a dirty reputation and the other trusted. These changes eBay has implemented will do nothing but perpetuate the negative reputation of the eBay name.
Patricia1On 05.18.2008 at 9:00 pm Said:
Well, I don’t know if Amazon gets involved with feedback but I do know they will email you a reminder to please give your seller feedback. Also, what I really like, is they allow time for the package to reach you before you can even give feedback…did you know that? When I receive a package I almost immediately go back to give the seller feedback before I forget….several times, because the seller shipped immediately, I was actually not able to give feedback because I received my item too soon! I will get a banner saying it is too early to leave feedback your item will be delivered between this time and this time. As for ebay, they are just about the only site I know of that does not allow buyers and sellers to handle feedback between them. Almost from the beginning, ebay got into feedback by not removing feedback that the buyer or seller should have had the capability of removing on their own! If a buyer gives a seller a neg they should have the ability to remove it within a certain amount of time. This gives the buyer and seller time to do the most important thing…straighten out the problem! It might also free ebay…ahem…to go after fraud and scammers! Just a thought…
MechelleOn 05.19.2008 at 1:14 am Said:
@CrunchyPostingGoodness
I believe eBay is playing chicken with sellers right now. They are counting on their history of getting their way, but this time for people such as yourself,a basic cost benefit analysis (so basic it doesn’t even need to be put to paper) is telling these sellers that it simply isn’t worth it to do business within eBay anymore.
Today I was looking at my buyer feedback to see when a neutral will drop off, and I was stunned to see some big time sellers in my category gone- there is no way they were suspended they simply left- closed their account and apparently moved on to some where else- I’m talking about people 6000 to 8000 feedback that were in the 99.8 to 100 and were not loaded down with feedback withdraws.
So, my curiosity peaked I started clicking into the sellers’ IDs and was stunned even further to see how many who were apparently still registered, but were absent none-the-less. Also, those still around had relatively few listings up.
So, then I went to store search and put in one of the brands that I carry to see how the stores stacked up- typically my store will be on pages 3 or 4 for this particular brand- well I was number 9 on page 1, and I am about 1/3 lower on the amount of that brand than I typically have.
My point- eBay is trying to pull the you need me more than I need you game- attempting to psychologically break people down with their arrogant comments such as mentioned “why will the sellers choose to stay on eBay?, because we have all the traffic”(Donahoe). So, their role play right now is to act as though every eBay seller is disposable. You say they are right there will always be new people wanting to sell on eBay. I’ll grant you that, however the question is - is eBay looking to grow or start over? If all the currant veteran sellers leave they also take with them the knowledge they have acquired over their history on eBay. So, how are the replacement sellers going to start where those who left took a decade to develop and master?
The eBay selling community had grown through enculturation. The experienced teaching the newcomers- sure a lot of people come in with a vision but it is essential to smooth the edges, and for that to happen quickly it can only be achieved with the help of experienced sellers.
It is a poor decision to kill off the elders in any culture and the concept is just as vital on eBay as it is anywhere else. In essence, after you wipe the slate clean your next move is made from scratch.
eBay is playing chicken, but if I were them I wouldn’t be to cocky and stubborn about it, or those shareholders are going to demonstrate who in fact is disposable in this little game they are playing- with other people’s money.
urbankatOn 05.19.2008 at 1:39 am Said:
Sandi, I have run my comments past Ebay and according to them they are harsh but are within the policy. I have also asked them to remove the sellers swearing and name calling they have Refused.
I buy many different items and from many diffferent sellers so you are correct that that it is not the “norm” but really what it says is that alot (on the rise) of sellers think Ebay is so big and has too many people for Ebay to control and it’s true.
They want the money but do not want to get involved, around the world is amazing, where do you start to make things better? Like all business’s who have to down size or want to for profit etc., the little guy is the one who always gets punched in the gut and has an awful time getting back up.
What is happening though is that so many sellers control the boards and they are all yes all everyone of them having fits and tatraums and they are being even more rude and nasty than usual with the buyers.
I and others have tried to tell them it is not our fault, we all want a good deal if that were not the case then there would be NO buyers on Ebay or many on-line shops, they are shooting their own buyers some of them and the rest are attacking people it’s actually Abusive in every sense of that word.
If sellers would in the forums I am speaking of at the moment, if they would come together with the buyers they would have more leverage with Ebay, the site is too huge and you have to have huge masses to have a voice, but I am telling you that as one of the people who is constantly being screamed at/ridiculed/called stupid childish names/the innuendoes are unbelievable!
I keep reporting what is happening and you know what Ebay allows (whom ever has control over the AC board and I garauntee it’s not a pink) they keep deleting my posts and my threads, I have had one person look up my persoanl information and email a threat to me and then start a “gossip” thread about me personally and I am the one who is being deleted, I hav not swore or done any of those things.
Ebay has given some control over to sellers because they are angry and the sellers are running amok with power, I spent alot and I have to fight to get my money back and Ebay allows this kind of behaviour, I can tell you that alot of buyers will be leaving if things do not change and it is solely due to the “bad” small and large sellers, buyers are afraid to come to the boards, sellers have control over everything and it’s not because they are so educated it’s because buyers just want to buy and have a little fun and maybe sell, but after they get a load of that well….
Anyway thank you
urbankatOn 05.19.2008 at 2:46 am Said:
It is appearing that the so called “moderation Team” on AC board must be some of the sellers, they are not ebay employee’s because everytime they send me a message it only goes to my email address but NOT my Ebay messages Not one of their many have made it there, so I am being threatened and ridiculed and my posts and threads are being deleted, it is no wonder I Never get a response back.
That really makes sense now that I see all that since their commrades are ALLOWED to say and Do whatever they want yet buyers if they stay are abused and comments are deleted. Ebay are you going to continue allowing them to do this?
I will be at the Town Hall Meeting as many other buyers, I have sent many messages to you in many different ways trying to get some answers, One would hope that you really are paying attention, like with any other store if you are Not Treated properly You Just Leave, so you let me know one way or another. Thank you
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