Friday, May 16th, 2008
Feedback on Feedback to Feedback
All,
Thanks again for your kind words and emails. Sorry for the delay in getting this to you. As promised, I managed to spend time with Brian Burke this week and he tackled a lot of the follow-up questions that came through from the “Accountability” post written last week.
The following follow-up questions and answers are shown in no particular order. The questions, and the prior comments by Brian they refer to, are indented and shaded below. The new answers follow each shaded box.
I realize there were more questions asked but I wanted to get at least some addressed sooner rather than later. Thanks to Brian for taking the time to sit down with me again to discuss questions raised here on Ink.
Cheers,
RBH
Please re-round the circle squared by eBay President Lorrie Norrington on the eBay Announcement Board on March 20, 2008 titled “Update For Sellers”.
Norrington seems to be attempting to address the concerns of sellers who fear a neg from a non paying bidder. She attempts to mitigate the new “neg sellers only” policy by writing:
“What we have determined is that if the buyer does not specifically call out poor seller performance, item condition or transaction problems during the UPI process, eBay will remove the seller’s negative or neutral feedback — retroactively.”
This makes no sense. Sellers do not send items won in auctions before receiving payment. How can a buyer who leaves a neg be justified by claiming a problem with “item condition” for an item never sent, received nor seen? Again, sellers DO NOT send items without first receiving payment.
While Norrington’s “solution” may be boss pleasing “disruptive innovation”, it flat out makes no sense in the real world of selling on eBay.
This policy is designed to address a specific issue raised at the eCommerce Forum in January. Specifically, sellers complained that the current protections for sellers with the UPI process - the buyer must fail to respond completely - was inadequate, since all a buyer had to do was enter a single character or comment that they had no intention of paying, and any negative or neutral FB left by the buyer would remain.
Sellers shouldn’t send items prior to receiving payment. But if a buyer is complaining about the product condition in the UPI process, it’s a good indication that the buyer did pay.
Buyers who respond and respond in a manner that clearly indicates the seller was not at fault, such as “I found another one” or “my spouse is in the hospital so I can’t pay” shouldn’t be negatively impacted by a buyer’s negative Feedback.
However, if the buyer states, “I refuse to pay via Western Union” or “I just sent payment” or “I paid” (NOTE, some sellers file false claims, those caught are suspended) or “I did a charge back because you refused to send me a refund for the damaged product” would result in negative or neutral Feedback remaining.
A buyer who is referencing product condition, not receiving the product, etc. is a very good indicator that the buyer sent money.
We will continue to evaluate this policy.
We used a really simple definition when determining exactly what constituted retaliatory negative feedback. It was strictly a user who received a negative feedback and subsequently left a negative feedback.Severely flawed research error. The definition of retaliatory feedback” is based on an assumption not a fact.
With millions and millions of transactions happening we have to study behavior over time in order to identify trends and to determine whether or not a specific trend needs addressing. The fact is that 4 years ago, sellers would leave a negative after a buyer had left a negative twice as frequently than a buyer would and today it is eight times as frequently. That is a significant change in behavior and one that needed to be addressed. Again, we examined a lot of alternatives before coming to the conclusion that the feedback system needed to change. We learned that when a buyer gets a negative feedback in the eBay marketplace, they discontinue participating in the marketplace and it’s not healthy for anyone.
In January we mentioned that we’d block buyers from leaving negative or neutral Feedback for 3 days for sellers “with a track record.” Since January, we’ve made the decision to increase the wait period to 7 days and define “track record” as active PowerSellers who have been on eBay for at least 12 months.
What about NON-Powersellers? Does this mean the buyer could leave us a negative IMMEDIATELY? Or does it mean they can do it within 3 days, and only PS get the 7 day protection? This needs immediate clarification. Richard, PLEASE get a clarification on this.
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Why does the cooling off period, given it is so short a timeframe, only apply to PS? Why not to those who have been on the site for years? Why not to everyone?
Right now only PowerSellers get the 7-day protection. This has replaced the 3-day block rule introduced back in January. Suspension types and frequencies of suspensions were analyzed and it was determined that PowerSellers were the safest population of users to single out for this protection. If safety issues arise we could restrict this beyond the 12-month, PowerSeller distinction and, conversely, if we see positive results and gain confidence in the 7-day protection model, we could expand to other sellers. I don’t see this happening in the next 6 months though.
Richard, while you’re at it, can you please get an explanation as to how a waiting period adversely affects buyers anyway? Sellers have to give buyers 7 days to pay before they can file a UID. Why not give ALL sellers the same 7 day “benefit of the doubt?”
Essentially, we’re trying to balance marketplace safety with seller satisfaction. We want buyers to know immediately about a potentially bad or fraudulent buyer experience to better avoid repeat occurrences.
The way we’re going to hold buyers accountable is through private reporting from sellers; through enhancing the tools that we’ve given sellers to help protect them from buyers.What enhancements? Here’s the thing — the only thing that I’ve ever found helpful on feedback left for buyers is utilizing their feedback received when someone is slow in paying (ie, I’m not sure if they will follow through). If they have negs for non-payment, I’ll file a UPI a bit faster. If they don’t, I give them a lot more time/leeway. Will sellers have access to info on whether UPI reports have been made against buyers?
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What enhancements to which tools?
Sellers will not have direct access to info on whether UPI reports have been made against buyers. However, there is a buyer requirement tool that will allow sellers to block buyers with a UPI track record of 2 or more items. We’ve also introduced a seller reporting hub.
We’re going to take a look at what buyers are saying in the UPI console and remove it if it is arbitrary.
Who is going to be doing this? What will be the guidelines as to what is “arbitrary?”
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Will the process of reporting a buyer be reviewed by an actual person or a bot? Will we receive canned answers?
Customer support representatives will be reviewing all reports. There will be canned answers associated with general issues raised for the hundreds and hundreds of cases reported. Reports will be handled on a case by case basis and will be deemed arbitrary if there is no mention of dissatisfaction with the seller or an unwillingness to complete the transaction with the seller.
Does this new PowerSeller policy constitute a barrier to entry? And what about seasonal sellers who cannot enjoy PS benefits because they sell for a few months each year (but most definitely qualify PS, they just are not onsite long enough each year to qualify)? And what about new sellers? Do they become targets with no protection? Do you guys not want new sellers?
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Do you see a place for the small time seller on eBay in the future? I would love to stay but I am being pushed away with every calculated change and it seems many others are also. Is this what eBay is counting on?
These changes don’t have anything to do with the size of the seller. They are focused on the buying experience. With regard to DSRs and feedback, smaller sellers are actually the folks in a position to take an advantage of the new changes because they already provide a more personalized, attentive service to the individual buyer… helping ensure positive feedback after a transaction is completed.
We want all sellers to feel welcome on eBay and the new PowerSeller policy should not be seen as a barrier to entry, rather it should be seen as another incentive to sell more on eBay.
Will anything be done to ensure the 12-month period does not backfire on anyone?
There will inevitably be a small group of folks that are negatively effected by the 12-month window but again, we think that recent performance and activity is a much better indicator of what a buyer can expect to experience than a performance rating from 7-8 years ago.
A couple of months ago I received an email saying that a positive feedback had been removed because a buyer had been NARU’d after a relatively short time on Ebay.
On the Australian site my feedback now reads 99.9% for the last 12 months in spite of the fact that I have not received a neutral or neg for about 8 years, and I have been on a full 100% for about 6 or 7 years. I have never entered into mutually withdrawn feedback.
Please ask Mr Burke whether feedback that has been completely removed by Ebay is being counted as “non positive” feedback. If not, can you please ask him to review my feedback and clarify why it is calculated at 99.9% for the last 12 months on the Australian site. I am not asking for any adjustment to my feedback, only a clarification (you know, accountability) - I can supply a friends user ID with no neutrals or neg’s in the last 12 months and 4.9 dsr’s that currently rates at 99.5% if he would like to review that as well.
This is likely a data anomaly - with over 7 billion Feedback we occasionally have these come up. But since the seller is in US, I would ask that they wait until we update the US site next week. If it is still inaccurate, I can have a database engineer look into it - but I bet it’s accurate next week.
EBay is accepting the unverified opinion of buyers a fact, seller’s loose status based on the unverified feedback and DSR”s that buyers leave. Will eBay accept the reports of extortion and buyer bad behavior from sellers as fact without verifying those reports? Or will they only count against the buyer after being reviewed? A public system of accountability for sellers with no review of the facts and private backdoor accountability systems for buyers with a review of facts is not an equal and just system. So ask Brian if seller reports about buyers will be reviewed. Will sellers need to provide proof of extortion?
Sellers reports of buyers will be reviewed thoroughly. Extortion is very difficult to prove so the more proof a seller can provide, the better off we’ll all be. It will be easier to take action against buyers that have a pattern of behavior rather than a single instance of reported extortion - again because it is very difficult to prove a single instance of extortion.
In order to cut down on potential extortion situations we’re reducing the number of days someone can leave feedback from 90 to 60 days.
*How* does this cut down on potential extortion situations?
The window of time in which a buyer could resort to extortion has been shortened. For example, in the past a buyer could wait until 85 days after a transaction to practice extortion. The longer the time period; the longer the opportunity. We’ve reduced that window of opportunity considerably.
If the buyer did not pay, shouldn’t the “burden of proof” be on the buyer to report the reason why he / she did not pay?
Better yet, why not allow “private” reporting by the buyer to let eBay know that there was a good reason that they didn’t pay the seller?
What percentage of buyers actually have a valid reason for nonpayment? How about some eBay “statistics” to give us a better understanding of eBay’s desire to protect this group of eBay buyers who NEED the ability to leave negative feedback for a seller that never received payment.
We need any information regarding potential fraud to be public, and to be public fast. With regard to statistical information, Brian indicated that he would get UPI stats for me to share on the blog.
Tagged: brian+burke, buyers, detailed+seller+rationgs, dsr, ebay, ebay.com, ecommerce, feedback, Marketplace, online+marketplace, sellers
Rooster613On 05.25.2008 at 3:27 pm Said:
What is ebay doing to EDUCATE buyers about what the DSR stars mean to sellers reputations and scores? A lot of people think a 4 means OK for an ordinary transaction that went fine. They do not leave a 5 unless there was something super-great about it, such as a very good deal or a bonus freebie or something. But a 4 is judged by ebay as not good enough, it is seen as a complaint. How will this discrepancy be addressed?
Similarly, there are people who leave a neutral for an item that arrived OK but was late due not to the seller but to the carrier. Most buyers DO NOT UNDERSTAND that neutrals are now being counted the same as negs. They use neutralsto register mild annoyance and negs for serious compalints, which are NOT THE SAME THING! Adding in the negs RETROACTIVELY is als unfair, because the buyers who left them DID NOT INTEND them to be counted as negs.
And how are MILLIONS of members who only buy and do not sell (and who do not read announcements and forums — heck, a lot do not even obther to read descriptions carefully) ever going to find out that their neutral now counts as a neg???
For that matter, why even HAVE neutrals anymore? If a neutral and a neg count the same, why not just have negs and positives? It would be a lot less confusing for everybody.
Rooster613On 05.25.2008 at 4:21 pm Said:
Patricia, I agree about the lack of professionalism. There is ZERO consideration for honest hard-working sellers here. Every time major changes are made, it is with authoritarian caveats that allow for no user input at all, and often with no forewarning.
For example, the announcement about banning digital downloads was not even sent out before the ban happened — most of us digi sellers found out when we tried to list something and a big nasty warning popped up out of nowhere. Not until LATER THAT DAY was there anything in the announcements area, and there NEVER WAS an email about it. Even Live Help was clueless when I asked about it at 8 AM that day — they had no idea the policy had changed. It was like coming to work and being fired for no reason when as far as you knew, you were doing a great job.
Now the SAME thing is happening with Mystery Auctions. One little line buried in an announcement last week that sometime in “early June” (no exact date given) they will be banned. So — can I list a Mystery Box this week or not? If it runs past June 1 will I be in violation? Exactly what does “Early June” mean? June 1? June 5? June 7? HELLO???
In neither of these cases were there emails telling sellers IN ADVANCE — how many sellers will get violations for Mystery Boxes when they did not even know the policy changed? Orv WHEN the change goesc inot effect??
And now we are hit with “no more mutual withdrawals” the same way — it just suddenly appears out of nowhere in small type, no advance warning, no discussion. Same with a new line in the rules that says it is now “Feedback abuse” to leave “Negative comments that contradict a positive rating.” There goes the pos-neg option — the ONLY option a seller had left to register public displeasure with a deadbeat buyer since we can no longer leave negs.
That line was added in so recently that the Feedback Tutorial does not have it listed yet. I looked. So now we not only are unable to leave red negs, we can’t even leave a positive with a complaint? And if we leave nothing, the rip-off-scammer has 100%?
I get the feeling that ebay is just making it up as they go along. There is no plan, just CEO caprice of the moment. We watch our FB scores plummet because oh yeah, by the way, negs now count the same as neutrals, so sorry we forgot to explain that. And oh yeah, all the OLD negs will count that way too, even if buyers did not intend them to be negs.
How does ebay expect anybody to win at this game when they keep moving the goalpost? Maybe they don’t.
Patricia1On 05.25.2008 at 7:22 pm Said:
@ Richard - I don’t believe they expect anyone to win - not the small sellers. I’ve made it known here that I feel they are trying to rid the site of small sellers slowly so they can bring in the larger sellers and retailers. Do it slowly and you lose the least amount of revenue. I’ve felt that way all along. So, now I put the effort into other sites and my own website. In fact I’m presently running an ad on Google that runs right under ebay’s ad 
As for DSR’s about the only thing we can do is try to educate the buyers. Ebay certainly isn’t doing it. I put together this little insert that will go into all my packages.
Anyone who wants to use all or part of it may do so:
Can We Talk?
My performance as a seller is
being rated by you. You decide if sellers like me stay or go on eBay. Truth is, anything less than a 5.0 rating lowers my standings in search until I can no longer be found.
Should you find anything wrong with your purchase from me…I stand ready to rectify the situation. Most honest sellers want to keep their good reputations and remain sellers on eBay. Without the cooperation of buyers - that will soon change. Most of us try our best to describe an item properly, to package and ship it carefully. My items are shipped upon payment and at no more than a few pennies above actual shipping cost - yet my stars for shipping time and shipping cost have been damaged.
If buyers don’t begin to communicate their displeasure or the reasoning behind rating a seller at less than a 5.0 then soon all unique small sellers such as myself will be gone from the site. So, I’m asking you to please either contact me with your complaints or rate fairly. Only 5.0 ratings can keep us on this site.
Please remember, you are rating ME and not the post office. You are rating the time I send out the item - not how long the post office takes to get it to you. You are also rating what I charge you and not what the postal rates happen to be.
Thank you so much for your understanding,
++++++++++++++++++
I guess we have to do ebay’s job and try to educate the buyers. I really feel they do NOT know how to rate or the importance ebay has put on it…perhaps by educating the buyers we can prolong our demise for a bit longer
MechelleOn 05.25.2008 at 7:56 pm Said:
I seriously think sending the education notes could back fire. First your letting people know how badly they can affect your stars, and second they may be inclined to believe eBay’s portrayal of us as crooks and not trust a word you write and slam you because of it.
I sold something that had an error in the listing (sell similar item forgot to remove quantity from text body) oddly it is a popular product sold within 2 days of listing it and had a few watchers- the price totally demonstrated it was for one which I am inclined to believe the watchers realized considering none of them jumped to purchase it. Anyway, I got an email thanking me …. then my question has to be the listing stated 5 but I only received 1 (3 days after delivery).
I explained it was an error and apologized offered to pay return shipping and full refund of original payment (normally I would just refund and tell them to keep it), but frankly I was annoyed because she damn well new it was an error and is trying to work it rather been be a descent person prior to purchase to ask how many(oh she has almost 4000 feedback).
So, of course I’m sitting their thinking great now this wench is doing the silent extortion and she’s going to give me a negative/neutral (what’s the difference anymore)if I don’t produce 4 of something I don’t have - no she doesn’t want four - she wants the one she has free. I saw her feedback was low at 99.2 so curious I looked - then I bid a book.
She emailed telling me not to worry about it- that she wanted to keep the one she had, and wished me luck on the auction- I won.
When I come across a listing that clearly has an error I don’t bid or purchase it- I contact the seller and let them know there is an error. The fact this woman is also a seller really ticks me off. Really what kind of person deliberately acts to s**** someone over- it was a clear error.
This is what sellers will have to deal with- I’m not saying I didn’t make a mistake, rather that it is a really crummy person who tries to take advantage of the error. If she decided to ship it back I would have paid all fees and refunded, but I knew she wouldn’t, so the only concern I had was my feedback.
Patricia1On 05.25.2008 at 8:22 pm Said:
I read some of the stories about buyers and they’re really horror stories. I only had one mentally unbalanced person in all the 10 years I’ve been selling on Ebay. My buyers are generally very understanding people. Maybe its because I only deal with art collectors. I honestly feel they don’t know how to rate us. They’re given stars between 1 and 5 - I would think middle range (3.0) is good 4 and 5 exceptional! I would be killing off sellers left and right if I rated them that way. They can’t rate us fairly if they don’t know and it seems ebay has decided not to tell them. So, since my shipping time and shipping cost stars are getting dinged I felt I should level with them. Maybe they ARE rating us for what really is the post office’s fault. At this point, I feel its worth a try and several other sellers are trying it too and some have been doing this since the craziness all started.
MechelleOn 05.25.2008 at 9:18 pm Said:
yeah- really what is there to lose anymore I guess may as well give it a try.
I guess it just feels odd to me to start doing something like that because I have never ever communicated with my customers concerning feedback in any capacity, because I feel it is their decision to make and I don’t want to influence them in either direction LOL. However, as you said they don’t know the implications of their choices now. I don’t know.
Patricia1On 05.25.2008 at 9:46 pm Said:
Mechelle - yes, it is their decision to make and they’re the ones that are going to rate us. I feel they should at least know what’s what. It seems ebay either deliberately or simply because they don’t care, did not give buyers the right information so they could make intelligent choices. Telling them a 4.0 is good while they bash us over the head for anything less than a 5.0 is not right…we all know its not right. The only ones who don’t know are the buyers whose job it is to rate us. so, as you say - what do we have to lose?
MechelleOn 05.25.2008 at 10:13 pm Said:
Yep, Patricia - there is no where to go but down from here- I don’t see any other way. They change the freaking standards daily- if you think your doing well they raise the bar the next day and you find you’re not. It is as though someone was standing on top of a mountain - another person came along and flooded the sides creating slick mud and then he flew to the top of the mountain and gave the person a shove causing him to fall over the side of the mountain and is left struggling trying to climb back up, but the mud is so slick with every hand and foot grasp he slides further down.
It really is a futile effort anymore.
LynnOn 05.25.2008 at 10:18 pm Said:
Patricia, I feel the same way as you. The major portion of my buyers are good decent people. But I do have to agree with Mechelle. I wrote out a flyer I titled “a guide to feedback and dsrs.In it I let them know what was happening much in the way you did but I also broke down each dsr and what they should be rating on. This is what I meant earlier when I stated it may have backfired on me. I went out of my way so that the flyer was very business like and was in no way demeaning to the buyer.I even let them know about the connection to the discounts of Ebay’s fees.I explained to them the rate increases and that if sellers do not get the discounts the increased fees are only passed on to the buyers in the form of higher prices and asked them to be fair and honest.I urged them repeatly to contact me if there was a problem or question before they left feedback. I had my eldest daughter who has a master’s degree in Engligh proofread and edit it. When that 1st nine packages were delivered ( that contained the flyer) my dsrs nosedived, one down to 4.0. Right now only one dsr is below 4.6 for the month which has caused me to be lowered in the search. This is really no big deal for me since each of my items (for the most part)are rare enough at any given time that they still show high in the search.
as for the decline in business, I’ve been trying hard to understand it.Ebay will probably try to tell us it is the economy in general but I’m not buying.It seemed to start about the time Ebay’s policies went into effect and then when you take into consideration that people got those tax rebates it should not have gone down at all. But then the last time Ebay made major changes to the fee structure of the stores and played around with the search and hid the store items, business plummeted.What scares me is that it took almost a year and a half for business to return to normal. At the time I had been pushing the silver level and saw my sales plummmet to $800 for 2 months and then come up to between 1200 to 2000 a month and remained there. It wasn’t till last fall that it started going up and we finally hit the silver level which we are now fixing to lose and we may end up losing even the bronze level now due to the dsrs. When business stated getting good, I assumed it was the economy. People looking to save money and not pay retail. Can’t figure it out! I have even entertained the idea that it is because Ebay is not advertising like they were. When was the last time you saw an Ebay ad on tv? There is also the problem that Ebay excutives are not thinking about. A large portion of Ebay buyers are also sellers.With the rate increases and not being sure of their money, they are not buying.I know I’m not. Since I have an Ebay store, no matter if I sell anything or not, I still have to pay Ebay for the store and the montly amount for each item. If I don’t sell enough to cover that cost plus the auctions I run, I sure am not going to waste the money and buy.
I’m not sure that Ebay is trying to run off the small sellers.I think it more a case of people who don’t have any experience in selling on Ebay trying to make decisions that affect the entire site. I’ve seen it in my husbands business. He is an auto body tech (36+ years) and they have had college educated consultants come in and set up plans on making the business more profitible. Never works because these idiots don’t have even a glimmer what it takes to take a car that has been almost totaled and make it like new. One even dared to try to tell him how to go about one particular job. I can’t repeat here what he told that guy.
Brian, do you hear this? Try for one month to be a seller and earn a living on Ebay before you make decisions like these. Feel the knot in your stomache that we feel when a buyer who has never contacted us leaves a negative or now leaves a good feedback and then slams you in the dsrs and you know that there is not a single thing you can do to change it or protect yourself. Try the high blood pressure you get knowing that your business, that you have worked so hard at to the point of diving yourself nuts, you may lose and that income you scrape out of it will be gone,Pulled out from under you by someone who hasn’t the faintest idea of what they are doing. The only sellers you will be running out of here are the good ones, not the bad ones since they really could care less if they get negs, etc. We good sellers are the ones who care about our buyers, our business and Ebay general health but we are getting slammed by these new idiotic policies. The dsrs are at the root of the problems. You tell us in the guides on the new dashborad to do this and that to bring up our scores. Funny, I was already doing those things long before the dsrs came into excistance and I;m still getting slammed. The dsrs give us no clue as to what we have done wrong if anything. They can also be used
against us for no other reason than the buyer not happy that he had to pay what he agreed to pay. I had this happen recently when a part I had was on auction ( a rare part for a El Camino) and two bidders took it up to more than double my reserve.My reserve was set at what I thought it was worth. The one that won it decided it wasn’t worth what he paid and slammed me is the dsrs. He actually gave me a 2 on description even though there were multiple clear pictures and such an accurate description that he could not file against me because he knew he would lose.He left a positive feedback but then gave it too me good in the dsrs for his own stupidity because he kept bidding and agreed to pay far more than the item was worth!
Patricia1On 05.25.2008 at 10:26 pm Said:
Mechelle - well, you stick with it long as you can…start diversifying and hope for the best. Frankly, I don’t know what their plans are for Ebay but far as we’re concerned we could use a miracle LOL I’ve been working on my website like crazy and its paying off makes me feel the situation is far from hopeless.
urbankatOn 05.25.2008 at 10:39 pm Said:
I can not believe the things you all are saying. Why do you think buyers are so stupid? All This Education talk?
I am sure that a very small percentage may need to pay better attention, but I do not believe it has anthing to do with NOT Understanding the system in any way.
If anything some may be angry about something and instead of taking the time to email they just score according to emotion and facts but let’s face it emotions play a part in everything.
If I really want something and I am willing to pay the price and bid and I recieve it in good time, the communcation is good etc. but the shipping is unbelievable, then I use the appropriate star, is that not what they are for?
I am alittle offended by this non stop talk of how dumb buyers are, I do think that Ebay is using everything they can to phase out the sellers whom they deem “not the kind of people we want at Ebay”.
The easiest way to get rid of people is to make them really angry and that is exactly what is happening, a small exodus oh I know many are saying they are leaving “forever” but that is what is always said and then they come back, if you want to put a small blurb about the importance of the grading system and how much you care about customer service that would be great, but some sellers try to cram all of their other listings and all of their rules onto the auction page and it’s like reading a book.
I never bid on those types anymore, if you buy from a regular store you don’t have to go through that, we have Ebay rules, Paypal rules, sellers personal rules, make it short and sweet to the point right after the description, but if you start letting many buyers know what you really think of them,( uneducated-can’t read, don’t pay attention etc.) you will lose even more business, many buyers lurk, never saying anything because they do not want to be attacked, if bids are down it’s not because Ebay changed the FB system it’s beause they are reading what the sellers are saying about them, remember our scores have also changed, mine went from 97.4% to 88.2% so this “silliness that all buyers will have perfect scores” it simply NOT TRUE.
I know eventually buyers scores will improve but if you have a good buyer why on earth would you want to push them away because Ebay Changed the System, buyers had Nothing to do with it, as soon as you realize that Ebay set this in place knowing full well that sellers would place the blame on the buyers, and what company does not play those types of games?
Ebay is no different than any other company, Very few companies in the big scheme of things really ever treat their employees (on a large scale) as they should.
Patricia1On 05.25.2008 at 11:09 pm Said:
Whoa! Nobody here ever called a buyer dumb - you did - we did not! As for “educating” buyers - they’re pretty smart people when they KNOW what’s what. Ebay told them 4.0 was fine - then bash us. I feel buyers would like to know the truth then they can decide for themselves what they feel our service was worth! I’m sorry if you can’t see the difference!
“Ebay is no different than any other company, Very few companies in the big scheme of things really ever treat their employees (on a large scale) as they should.”
This is also not true. I retired from a wonderful company - a huge conglomerate with almost 50,000 employees worldwide - that makes ebay look like a dwarf. I’m very proud of that company and how they treat their people…I’m NOT proud of ebay right now!
MechelleOn 05.25.2008 at 11:29 pm Said:
@urbankat
I think you are correct for some people, but the reality is not everyone is aware of the changes. How is it possible for all buyers to know the changes and their significance? The feedback break down that eBay uses to explain feedback does not say- now when you rate your experience as neutral the sellers feedback rating will decrease causing their position in auction listings to be buried and never see the top of the search results. What it does say is the same as it always had - neutrals do not effect feedback score.
There is a difference between stupid and uninformed. Most people don’t read the boards. There are still sellers even that are not aware of all the changes. So I’m not and I don’t think anyone else is suggesting the buyers are stupid, but that they are making choices without all the information. Maybe they would make a different choice if the knew all the details.
Now about this statement
Ebay is no different than any other company, Very few companies in the big scheme of things really ever treat their employees (on a large scale) as they should.
I just want to be clear on this- I am not eBay’s employee- ebay does not pay me anything. I am eBay’s customer - and frankly I’m not having a positive buying experience. I am getting really freaking tired of this assumption that I work for eBay- I do not - I am the one paying in our relationship- in more ways than one. They don’t even hold up their end of the contract- they are welchers. So, tell me how would you feel if you were in our position- if you were paying to be treated this way.
SandiOn 05.25.2008 at 11:43 pm Said:
urbankat, you seem to think you are the only buyer, you missed 1/2 of the people who disagreed with you on the ac were in fact buyers. I personally have over 2000 more feedback than you as a buyer. You are not the kind of buyer anyone would want. You just posted a prime example of why that is true:
If I really want something and I am willing to pay the price and bid and I recieve it in good time, the communcation is good etc. but the shipping is unbelievable, then I use the appropriate star, is that not what they are for?
No, ebay’s terms, rules are you agree to the terms by clicking bid. Once you have bid, you have no business complaining about shipping price - you agreed to the terms. ebay makes some assumpations:
Buyers are adult age
Buyers have reading comprehension skills
Buyers can do basic math
Why would anyone want you as a buyer with your attitude?
Now I have stopped buying on ebay. I find the best match cumbersome, I am capable of basic math and understand if sellers are paying ebay 10% and 12.75% plus listing fees, plus paypal fees - that the markup is more on ebay than overstock, onlineauctions, ebid or a dozen other sites.
Do you not understand the concept of costs being incorporated into the price you - the buyer - pays? Do you know what a seller pays ebay when you buy an item? Do you know what bubble wrap, peanuts, tape and postage costs nowdays? Do you understand the dimensions rates that went into effect last year and the oversize rates?
Do you understand that ebay collects 8.75% (or 12%) of the final bid price and if the shipping is “free” you just paid an additional 9-12% because ebay got their cut? Whereas if a seller charges you the shipping and handling, you actually save money because currently ebay does not take a cut out of the shipping/handling - only paypal cuts their grubby hands on a portion of that?
ebay does not care what buyers pay for shipping and handling, ebay only cares what their cut is and by making such a big deal out of it, they can force sellers (therefore buyers) to put the cost of shipping into the price so ebay MAKES MORE MONEY - and buyers pay more.
I resent the fact that I have to jump through 3 clicks to pay with my credit card when using paypal - I feel I should be able to set a default payment and not have paypal ask me 3 times if I am sure I really want to fund the payment with my credit card. Yet I am forced to use Paypal if I buy from a seller on ebay.
Paypal is already chargiung sellers the same fee if I use my bank account or my credit card - Paypal should be letting me - the buyer - decide how I want to pay. I really do not care that it is cheaper for paypal if I use my bank account, I want the protection of my credit card company - I don’t trust paypal - I want the company that considers me their customer to be on my side - and that’s my credit card company.
Yes, let ebay bring in the big retailers and get rid of the small sellers, afterall why would I want to purchase from a small seller with 100% feedback when I can shop with buy who has about an 80% buyer satisfaction rating in the real world - and have to wonder how they managed such glowing ratings on ebay.
As far as seller’s educating buyers - that was ebay’s big idea because they do not offer an customer service or education - even the help pages are nearly impossible to find the correct answers. Live Helpless will give you a wrong answer then refer you to the answer center anyway.
If you for a minute think ebay did this for buyers, you are being foolish. Everything ebay does is for ebay, period.
I am sure sellers appreciate you are posting with your buyer id.
And in the future, please remember you are not speaking for all buyers, only for yourself.
MechelleOn 05.26.2008 at 1:52 am Said:
You know it is totally insane that I find myself reading the boards with a second tab up for quick access to my Block Bidder List. They might have to up the max to 10,000 because it’s really racking up.
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