Accountability: The Evolution of the eBay Feedback System

BrendaOn 05.09.2008 at 7:20 am Said:

Would there be any way to resolve a Topic before beginning a new one?

Certain posts are items that I have read about in the news and don’t completely see the neccessity of rehashing it here.

From my perspective, it seems that the users are hoping for equality in treatment regardless of moneys going into Ebay’s coffers.

If you look over Blog topics there is definately more input in policy areas when compared to news.

JJHOn 05.09.2008 at 7:38 am Said:

“Take the question from someone yesterday wanting clarification on the 3 day 7 day “track record” change. That was a fairly easy one, all the poster wanted was clarification.

I don’t understand why you couldn’t simply pop an email off to Brian and ask if only power sellers were now being offered 7 day protection from feedback. Are small sellers no matter what their history was now excluded.”

Yes, that would be ME that asked that. I’m still waiting for an answer. It must be a simple answer, something that would take Brian no time at all to clarify.

Could you pop him off an email and ask please.

“Be reasonable- empathetic try to understand what is happening here. Don’t mock our concerns and treat us like we are a bunch of drama queens who should just be sweet as pie to these people who are playing games with the quality of life my children and I will live. This is not a freaking joke damn it!”

Oh yea, you go girl!

I couldn’t have expressed it any better. What Michelle say here is the problem. This is, for many people, our life, our income. It’s not a joke or a game to be toyed with - and eBay IS toying with it. eBay is in the unenviable position to make or break people’s lives on a whim (take digital delivery as a prime example). The phrase “it’s all about the money”, well, it isn’t just the money eBay makes - they make enough as it is (too much), but it’s OUR money too. If there’s a lot of pent up anger and frustration here, you know why.

SharonOn 05.09.2008 at 7:52 am Said:

@Mark Classic

Very interesting question re buy’s feedback. Wonder why this one is not being answered?

@Thebrewsnews

You have posted very eloquently how sellers have become increasingly disenchanted with Ebay. The frustration, the uncertainty that is the new atmosphere on Ebay.

@JJH

Still haven’t seen your question answered re NPB leaving negatives. This has needed addressed for a long time. Sellers should not have to fear a negative just to recoup final value fees from a non-paying bidder. NO PAYMENT, NO TRANSACTION, NO FEEDBACK.

ChrisOn 05.09.2008 at 7:57 am Said:

As a newcomer to eBay I am shell-shocked by the constant changes, and don’t feel particularly welcome. I sold my first item in January. My intention was to build up a business through eBay, but as I am preparing my house for sale I have only been selling a very few items to ensure I can give and excellent service. EBay seems to have forgotten or not be aware that most high volume sellers will have started out small. The small sellers discouraged today are the powerseller you wont have in a few years time. Most of the sellers I know are also buyers. Are we all split personalities; good when buying and bad when selling?

I am uncertain if I want to get any further involved with eBay because the small sellers are so vulnerable to suspension. Anyone who has ever worked in retail or customer services knows there is always the awkward customer who will never be satisfied. If I get one now before I have sold 20 items, which would make my feedback percentage immediately drop under 95%, would I be suspended or would my item visibility be affected?

LISTEN UP AND LISTEN GOODOn 05.09.2008 at 8:30 am Said:

All the double speak, dodged answers, and supposed good intentions spoken by the eBay suits should always looked with a grain of salt. Why? Because all they are concerned with is their perceived view of the bottom line: short term profit and prestige.

I had dealt this is American corporate mentality for several years and it’s easy to recognize. For example:

In the late 80’ and early 90’s my old company’s biggest client was one of the big three major American car manufacturers. Our company was the sole supplier of the high tech internal components for their fuel injection systems.

Our company was totally loyal to this car manufacturer. We never bumped an assembly line (unlike a lot of their other vendors for other products): delivering 50,000+ units a week on time and having what in the industry was classified as zero defects.

But that wasn’t good enough. This American car manufacturer continually tried to tell us how to run our business for our own supposed benefit (i.e., theirs) and attempted at many times to see our proprietary processing systems for “quality control purposes” (which was really to see how we did stuff so they could steal our processing techniques). They even tried to con us into showing other vendors how to do what we did!

Our company supplied this American car manufacturer for 10 years with never raising our price. That’s right, we did not raise our price for 10 years. We were able to do this by stream lining and continually remapping our processes. BUT, that was not good enough for the corporate suits. They want us to lower our prices by 10% after not raising them for 10 years.

We said no way, no price decrease, we would be operating at a loss. They then set out to replace us. This cost them literally millions of dollars in R&D and wasted manpower. But, they just KNEW they were right. They were ultimately wrong. And it affected their business. After replacing us with two vendors (an outside source and their own internal one) the quality and delivery time suffered: cars broke down and car assembly lines were bumped for days at a time (to the tune of millions of dollars an hour).

All of this because the suits thought they could make a name for themselves by having us, their maverick sole supplier, bend to their will and thinking they could do it cheaper. This car manufacturer lost tons of money in manufacturing and car sales, and we went out of business.

Who won? I guess the suits did because they still had their jobs and golden parachutes (bonuses, company stocks, etc). But, they did not care about the people their actions affected: their car buying customers (suffering from break downs and late deliveries for their cars), their own employees who were laid off due to assembly lines shutting down, and us - the loyal vendor who dutifully supplied their customer - yet was shut down because some corporate suits wanted to make names for themselves, WHO LOOKED AT THE SHORT TERM GAINS INSTEAD OF THE LONG TERM ONES, SEEKED SHARE HOLDERS APPROVAL, AND USED MY COMPANY AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT HAPPENS TO VENDORS THAT DO NOT SUBMIT.

This tome does not relate to everything going on right now between eBay and its sellers (though several analogies can be seen). It simply illustrates how out of touch corporate America and eBay can be. How it acts without truly thinking out the ramifications of how it treats the little guy who ultimately makes it all possible, i.e. because they are not in the trenches.

AnnaOn 05.09.2008 at 9:13 am Said:

Some interesting posts here. I think these posters have a grasp of the situation - can’t wait to read everything. Seems everywhere I go, ebay users are all saying the same things. I just wonder why ebay doesn’t answer their specific questions…

Scott @ TradingAssistantJournalOn 05.11.2008 at 9:12 pm Said:

eBay is answering questions. It could be useful to realize eBay execs can only provide the answers they have at their disposal. If these answers are not what you want to hear, Richard can not change the answers to make anyone happy.

The feedback provided here on eBay Ink is being read… I have discussed this with Richard Brewer-Hay and many of his colleagues at eBay personally. They are all reading what is said here. Please keep this fact in mind when you choose to leave unsupported attacks or repeat questions that have obviously not been answered for a reason. By doing these things you will not gain the attention of the eBay executives any faster, in fact they may just choose to stop reading this, their own blog.

Will you provide fuel for the therory that eBay sellers are hard to deal with?

Keep in mind that eBay is an independent company, publicly traded yes, but run by a set group of people. We, the outside users of eBay, do not run this company and we have no say in how it is run. Even if we pay a million dollars a year in eBay fees our demands will carry no more weight than a 1st day seller or buyer.

I am not saying that eBay is not listening, because I know that they are… eBay has made changes in the policies argued about here based upon direct feedback from the sellers. (Not just the sellers commenting on Ink, but sellers who provide constructive input directly).

Change is ever present in the business world, change occurs at your local flea market, change is part of everyday life… Why is it so difficult for eBay sellers to swallow hard when change comes down the pike for them? This is not a private club.

AmberOn 05.11.2008 at 9:27 pm Said:

“Why is it so difficult for eBay sellers to swallow hard when change comes down the pike for them?”

Because the changes have direct negative effects on their businesses.

Because the CONSTANT change creates an unstable marketplace and places huge labor burdens on sellers with constant revision.

“(Not just the sellers commenting on Ink, but sellers who provide constructive input directly).”

By directly, you must be referencing those select 200 sellers at the Ecommerce Forum. That hardly constitutes a majority.

And the sellers aren’t just commenting on this blog. They’re commenting on the discussion boards, in Ebay Groups, in the newspapers, on the blogs for many news sources…

Why not send suggestions to the suggestion box? Because it might as well be a roundfile–aka shredder/trash.

Ebay execs SHOULD have answers and should be willing to share them. Keeping their plans secret until the last possible moment does nothing to convince the professional sellers here that this is a viable marketplace.

“Will you provide fuel for the therory that eBay sellers are hard to deal with?”

Ebay sellers are no more difficult to deal with than ebay employees. Clearly, there’s something wrong with THIS marketplace, as many of the sellers sell on multiple OTHER venues that, amazingly enough, have much fewer problems with their sellers.

MechelleOn 05.11.2008 at 10:38 pm Said:

Well good for you- apparently eBay feels by discussing with you and Richard that they are reading/listening is all that is necessary. Excuse me if your account of their actions and emotions mean nothing to me. Really what is this high school? Apparently they can’t come say something for themselves so they send you and/or Richard to express their true feelings. If this is not the case than what we already knew is only again confirmed- they don’t give a damn- they aren’t listening - it is clear the only thing they heard was the raving from imagined “sellers” during their corporate psychotic hallucination that led to these absurd policy changes.

Will we fuel the theory that eBay sellers are difficult to deal with? Wouldn’t it be more accurate to ask - will we fuel the RUMOR that eBay has spread about sellers being difficult, frauds, cons, and in need of corporate take over- so we can stop choosing what is bad for us- of course we don’t know it’s bad for us- we just don’t know any better? Is that what you are asking? Well, I ask you, why ask what you already know? Of course we will.

Of course eBay is its own company and we don’t run it- the problem here is they want to run mine. My business is a private business in all measures, yet they want to dip their hand in my business wallet, control my customers, and decide if I even have customners without regard for how that effects my life- my family. So, sorry, but I have no respect for this concept we are supposed to acknowledge concerning their business as being up to them how to run it, because I get no such respect from them concerning my business.

So you feel like coming on Ink to lecture all of the fanatics about how we are butting into things that are none of our business- did you give eBay the same lecture? did you tell them that we have private businesses and it is up to us how we run them? Did you ask them if they wanted to continue to fuel the fire that eBay is an inhumane corporate beast?

Your telling us they are listening to “us”- well maybe we would like to listen to them. Maybe we want to hear something real - a truthful disclosure about where they are going, how they are intending to get there, and at what point are we being kicked to the curb.

Doesn’t it concern you - rather don’t you feel odd coming on here pleading eBay’s tale while at the same time telling us they have not answered our questions because they don’t know the answer? Isn’t that just a bit strange to you? really - how strong and convincing in their making the right choices can someone appear when they don’t have the answers to these very simple questions?

The truth of it is- my customers run my business - and even if they want to deny it- so do theirs. The only occasion a customer doesn’t call the shots is when there is a monopoly. So, which is it eBay- do your paying customers drive your business or are you taking advantage of your monopolistic position?

SandiOn 05.11.2008 at 10:42 pm Said:

eBay is answering questions. It could be useful to realize eBay execs can only provide the answers they have at their disposal.

Ok, if these head executives are not the ones who have the answers to policies under them, bring the correct people to answer them.

repeat questions that have obviously not been answered for a reason

There is no valid reason why not answering some of these questions.

Using your own words, ebay is a business:

what systems have been in place regarding seller reporting of bad buyers?

A business would have a written plan - before the new ploicy was implemented.

Let’s not forget ebay’s own press release regarding THIS blog is that this would be where readers would learn about the INNER WORKINGS of ebay - to date that has not happened (other than statistics is not a strength of ebay management), its merely posted the standard pr that can be read via multiple other sources.

Why can’t someone from ebay answer why a seller with a 10 yr proven track record is not offered the same protections as a power seller? That is a valid question that should be answered.

Sorry, but the questions being asked are simple and should be expected. Especially since ebay claims to want “transparency”.

If these answers are not what you want to hear

Actually answers would be refreshing. Please read Ms Norrington’s latest post about small sellers and tell me where she answered a single question as to what ebay is doing for small sellers? Keep in mind, her post was about how ebay loved their small sellers, wants to keep them. Please point out where she explained what ebay is doing for small sellers - I must have missed it.

Richard would be wise to keep detailed notes so he has everything he needs when he writes his future best seller, “How ebay died”

What The ??????On 05.11.2008 at 11:10 pm Said:

“We’re going to prevent negatives and neutrals being left for PowerSellers that have been on the site for more than 12 months (within 7 days of the transaction end). This is a big deal for us because we’ve always felt that we shouldn’t be able to prevent a buyer from leaving a negative feedback but we feel that PowerSellers who have been on the site for 12-months are pretty safe. We’re going to start with that group of sellers so that if a buyer tries to leave a negative or neutral within 7 days of the transaction end, we’re going to provide a link that encourages communication between the buyer and the seller to see if the buyer has given the seller enough time to deliver on the transaction.”
Why is it everything is being done for the POWERSELLER?
If people start looking at powersellers, most will not be in the near future. 4.2, 4.3 DSR’s or is the Powerseller imune from this to.
I am a buyer and I usally overlook powersellers because they have bad feedback and DSR’s.
I reported some powersellers that are still selling Digital Downloads, guess what?? They are still selling them.
I hope to see the good sellers on a site I can trust.

CAMOn 05.12.2008 at 1:10 am Said:

@Scott @ TradingAssistantJournal

“Change is ever present in the business world, change occurs at your local flea market, change is part of everyday life… Why is it so difficult for eBay sellers to swallow hard when change comes down the pike for them? This is not a private club.”

Your comment above is EXACTLY the problem. You are right in the respect that ebay is a business. However, the converse side is that I’m a business too.

As a buiness, I deserve some smidgen of consistancy.
I cannot think of any other business that I have ever dealt with that expecte ME to change my business processes more frequently than eBay. You use UPS and you might get a rate increase here and there. You might be offered a method to automate using new updated equipment, you might get a new driver now and again. However, what you do not get is a constant flow of change. You are not the UPS Lab Rat. You can train employees and update them as things change. With eBay, its learn, unlearn, and relearn at such a fast pace, that you could hire someone full time just to put out memos about eBay changes.

So lets look at eBay changes
In January..
1. New Advanced Features for FAQs (sellers have to update their buyer FAQS)
2.Improvements to Trading Assistant Program (new qualifications, users have to change their names, there is a new user agreement and your profiles have to change). (Businesses have to change signs)
3. Best Match Test in 5 categories (may impact your sales if you sell in these categories

Bullet list from eBay AB.(are mine)
Reducing insertion fees (price change, more competition)
Free Gallery … on all listings! (price change, more competition as I paid for gallery)
Reduced Feature Plus and Pro Pack fees (process change)
Increased listing exposure for sellers with great DSRs (large process change, including monitoring DSRs, rewriting and change policy to make sure that you don’t get disadvantaged)
Pricing discounts for PowerSellers with great DSRs (same as increased listing exposure)
Protection from chargebacks for PowerSellers (process change)
All addresses are confirmed addresses for PowerSellers on their eBay listings that are paid with PayPal (process change)
Unlimited PayPal protection for PowerSellers (process change)
Repeat Feedback credit
Rolling 12-month Feedback Percentage (ruins my historical great feedback)
Personalized Seller Dashboard (process change)

I was going to continue and do Jan - April. However, just January alone is more changes that I can absorb in a year. Each of these changes had SOME impact and most required SOME change on my part. It is a constant onslaught. eBay makes productivity impossible. I can’t set a policy or a process or even do something as simple as create training without having to re-do it over and over and over and over.

So you are right. Change is ever present, but trying to run a business with an onslaught of never-ending relentless change is insane.

CAM

SandiOn 05.12.2008 at 2:57 am Said:

@Scott, on your own post you had a guest blogger who in part stated:

All in all, I thought the speech was fantastic and I left the room feeling pretty good about the directions that eBay is taking.

I dropped my fork and walked over to Matt and asked him the same direct question. He responded to me, in his unique no-nonsense delivery…”I am not even going to begin to try to explain that to you. What I will say is that I believe we should remove the language all together from the DSR ranking page.”

Now the definitions have been an issue for over a year now. Sellers everything are now based on these “words”.

I don’t know where you went to business school, I got my MBA from UCLA, and no where did they ever suggest running a business where the top people did not know the answer to a basic question - that they know is being asked over and over (according to you and them since they are reading and listening afterall).

To make it worse, the “fall guy” for the question states he thinks the words are wrong as well. Again, most businesses when they acknowledge a faw - make corrections. BUT NOT EBAY, great business model.

Heck, they could have thrown a bone, but opted for the same ol, same ol stone wall approach.

But let’s forget about how stupid all that is for a moment.

TIP HERE:

Think of the positive pr ebay COULD have gotten if they had just said, Yes, our sellers are right, our definitions are confusing and certainly not in line with our goal of improving the buyer and seller experience. We need to make it easy, therefore we are changing it immediately.

But no, they don’t even answer the question when asked.

(and FYI, don’t claim it was their idea when they announce it on this blog next week, they should have figured that one out all on their own without a “tip”.

You are pointing your finger in the wrong direction, responders to this blog did not create the environment.

Scott @ TradingAssistantJournalOn 05.12.2008 at 5:34 am Said:

Re: Mechelle “So you feel like coming on Ink to lecture all of the fanatics about how we are butting into things that are none of our business- did you give eBay the same lecture? did you tell them that we have private businesses and it is up to us how we run them? Did you ask them if they wanted to continue to fuel the fire that eBay is an inhumane corporate beast?”

Yes, I have told eBay in person, and in my publication when they have missed the boat, when they have been unfair, when they have been inconsiderate. I have done so in a way that allows them to consider these points of view however… Not in an all out attack and not in an angry combative tone.

If my post from last night came off as something it was not, I apologize. I know there are a great deal of positive contributors here. I also know that Richard is in a difficult position and from some of his recent replies to comments here, it seems as though he may be slightly on the defensive. If Richard is on the defensive, and he is a genuinely nice guy, then I think some of the comments here could be toned down a tad, that’s all.

I have been just as frustrated with how eBay has presented themselves in the past and at present, as all of you. I have disagreements with many of the changes they have implemented. But I also have kept the lines of communications open rather than just tell them they are stupid and they are ruining my life.

Not all comments on this blog have done this but a good portion of the comments here have been less than fair to the messenger. Richard is relatively new to the eBay world at this participation level, and while his initial posts here may may have been more company PR than blogging, the quality of the information on this blog has steadily risen since the first week. We are now reading original content from within the ranks of eBay on this blog which can not be found anywhere else.

It is a given that eBay executives will of course present themselves and their departments in a way which will promote the company, but they are also answering the questions presented here and elsewhere through Richard Brewer-Hay in a more responsive way than I have ever seen before.

When an executive of Lorrie Norrington’s stature takes the time to respond and to clarify statements in a forum such as this, I think everyone should notice some changes have occurred on the other side of the fence.

I am not saying everything is perfect. But they are listening and they are responding to what we say… If we say something in a reasonable tone and if what we say has merit.

Someone else mentioned that “this is not High School”

I agree completely, it is not high school, it is also not the Jerry Springer Show.

There are many good people who are very concerned with their businesses contributing to this blog in the form of comments. And there also appears to be some people who do not even use the eBay site at all who think it is quite fun to add fuel to an already hot fire. Those people will never just go away, but the good people who are honestly concerned should be aware of the fire starters out there and try not to get so wrapped up in the vitriol they spread.

Anyone who has read my blog/publication or my comments here should know that I will and do hold eBay accountable for their decisions which affect users in a negative way. I will also, conversely try to understand what it is they eBay is trying to accomplish with these decisions, and if the goal is beneficial for all, I will praise them for the effort. I do not for a moment think they give my comments or blog posts any more consideration than they do any of yours. But, I do know that with some constructive comments placed at appropriate times, and without an acid pen… I have seen some of the suggestions made come to life as eBay policies.

eBay has never ever said they developed an idea directly from a comment or an article on any blog, and I don’t expect that they will. Yet the conclusion I have drawn is that they are listening and they are reading and they have a new more open process for considering how policies can be altered to make them fit better within the community. These alterations are happening faster than I have ever seen in the last 10 years.

So, yes… we all have cause for concern, Yes, we are trying to run our businesses, and yes eBay should be held accountable. Yet, we can only add to the conversation here, we can only present our views in a reasonable manner, we can only be part of the solution if we are heard.

We will not be heard if we do not listen.

implogOn 05.12.2008 at 6:08 am Said:

@Scott @ TradingAssistantJournal

You wrote

“eBay is answering questions. It could be useful to realize eBay execs can only provide the answers they have at their disposal. If these answers are not what you want to hear, Richard can not change the answers to make anyone happy.”

and

“Please keep this fact in mind when you choose to leave unsupported attacks or repeat questions that have obviously not been answered for a reason.”

I have asked for a clarification of the eBay General Announcement Board, March 20, 2008 statement of Lorrie Norrington, President, eBay Global Marketplace Operation, in which she wrote,

“What we have determined is that if the buyer does not specifically call out poor seller performance, item condition or transaction problems during the UPI process, eBay will remove the seller’s negative or neutral feedback — retroactively.”

On the day this blog began, I asked Richard to help get a clarification on Norrington’s statement. I asked Griff after his post here to help get a clarification since he sees Norrington at the eBay Town Hall meetings. I asked Richard again to get a clarification when he said he would be with Norrington at PESA in New Orleans. I asked Norrington directly after her drive by post on how much eBay loves small sellers.

Silence.

It is a simple question. I would think Norrington would want her statement clarified as it makes her look like a poor communicator or worse, embarrassingly out of touch with the eBay selling process.

Scott — Are you saying Norrington et al are not answering this critical question concerning a non-paying buyer’s ability to unfairly trash sellers because “eBay execs can only provide the answers they have at their disposal” or are not answering for “a reason”?

I have asked this question as a Power Seller seeking knowledge I need to make decisions for my business. There is nothing about this question that is “an all out attack” and it has not been asked “in an angry combative tone”.

There is currently a thread on the Feedback board concerning a seller who received a neg from a non-paying bidder. Ebay stated the neg was justified because the non-paying bidder replied to the seller’s Unpaid Item Dispute claim. The response — “I’m not going to pay!”

Is this an example of the UPI negative feedback policy eBay and Norrington want for sellers?

Scott — If for no other reason, given the example above, don’t you think clarification of Norrington’s March 20, 2008 statement on UPI negative feedback for sellers is long overdue? Would you be a “delighted” seller if eBay allowed a non-paying bidder to neg you with a UPI response of “I’m not going to pay!”