eBay partners with Buy.com

Patricia1On 05.05.2008 at 12:40 pm Said:

JJH - you’re right they are like Exxon…you’re wrong - they’re not like the electric company. I get a reduced rate from them because of my limited income, same with my telephone and gas company. Same with my car insurance company who gives me a lower rate because I’m a safe driver and I’ve been with them a long time….so, yes, they ARE like Exxon - wrong, they are NOT like every other company. Not all businesses are run the way you say - and I know of no other company that tells their customers to shape up or ship out. My own customers are well treated - always with respect and the repeat buyers get little gifts, cards, sometimes free shipping and sometimes just a small surprise painting that I think they would like. I would never dream of telling them to shape up or ship out!!!! By the way, emotion doesn’t even enter this picture….good business sense does…or should! I learned at an early age NEVER to burn my bridges behind me no matter how much I may personally feel the person isn’t worth my time.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 12:46 pm Said:

@ JJH

I think the reason why so many are bringing in the “human/emotion” aspect is because that is what eBay is founded on, and in fact, what it still wishes sellers to be, in part.

If it was simply business, then eBay should not expect so much communication on the part of sellers to their buyers. eBay stresses that sellers should try and make their buyers feel special and valued.

Also keep in mind that a lot of people sell on eBay just to make a little extra money or as a hobby. They don’t intend is as a full-time business, and therefore it is emotional for them. Plus a lot of sellers started out on eBay from the very beginning, when starting a business was the furthest from their mind and eBay stresses a community selling/trading environment. eBay created and encouraged the formation of an emotional based marketplace, so is it really any wonder that a lot of people who sell on eBay do so with a lot of emotion?

Where I sell, nothing like that is suggested or expected of sellers. That isn’t to say that I do not do things to make those who buy from me feel special, it is just that it isn’t expected or required by the selling environment or the people who buy there. When I buy from a large, online retailer, I do not a warm, fuzzy feeling from the buying experience. I just want to pay for my item and have it delivered.

eBay expects sellers to operate as professional seller is some terms, but yet small sellers in terms of making the buyer’s experience a special, warm and fuzzy one.

SandiOn 05.05.2008 at 1:21 pm Said:

jhh@
Antiques, “one ofs”, and unique items, for NOW anyway are still safe.

You are wrong. When one reads through the world news, ebay has not lost buyers due to the bogus reasons they are giving. The global slowdown is directly attributed to fakes on the site.

eBay’s bad press regarding being the largest fence operation in the world is what is killing sales - especially in the areas you mention. You can find websites that list the sellers who are selling fake antiques and they actually track when and how many reports to ebay it takes to get the seller booted.

To really fix the problems, ebay would have needed to expend real monies - and they have proven they are not going to do that. They are taking the short-sited approach of replacing current sellers with the buys, targets, Wal-Mart’s that they think they simply do not have to police.

I guess ebay even understands they have no credibility in the marketplace and is trying the shortcut method to correct that. I suspect their thinking is look, instead of spending money to really police the site, let’s give large retailers a discount for lending THEIR credibility to the marketplace.

But back to my statement about shortsightedness, ebay opted to ignore consumer satisfaction ratings for large retailers or they would have checked buy.com’s consumer rating because it is in the 80% bracket - people rate large retailers lower than the small seller.

http://www.bizrate.com/ratings_guide/cust_reviews__mid–18893.html

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Buy

http://shopping.yahoo.com/merchrating/user_rv.html?merchant_id=1002688

http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/buycom/r/8554/

The reviews do make one wonder if the dsr’s here on ebay are really as they appear given the negatives they have received. One would think the people who are leaving negatives are leaving 4 & 5’s on the DSR.

@Mr. Liebermann

Bottom line, I can buy it cheaper off ebay. Please do not insult my intelligence; any retailer coming on to ebay will pass the ebay fee (discounted of course) on to me. I understand business 101. eBay does not bring any value to spend extra monies to simply buy it on ebay.

JJHOn 05.05.2008 at 1:24 pm Said:

To all, I’m sorry if I touched a nerve. I was just as angry and upset as all of you over the past few months. I’ve said some pretty strong and nasty things in other forums. I’ve calmed down now and come to see the reality of what has happened.

The difference perhaps, as I said, is that ‘magic’ is still working here.

Crunchy, and Patricia1;

I am that small seller you describe. I’m a hobby seller. Even when I was a Powerseller I was a hobby seller. I gave all my customers 100% of my attention. I always did, I always will. I wish I could reveal myself and let you all see my feedback, and all the comments left for me over the years. Comments like “He told me his basement was flooded from a hurricane but the item came right away anyway” and “Emailed he was in the hospital, hope you get better, ship when you can”.

I have the same emotional bonds you do to this place, which is why I’m not ready to give up. That magic is still there for what I’m selling. The DSRs are excellent, the FB is 100%. I don’t see the FB changes causing any trouble for me.

What DOES piss me off is I get no discount for this HARD WORK and EXCELLENT service. Well, now the powersellers can complain because buy.com got a better deal than they did. Tough noggies. Welcome to the new ebay.

As for ebay expecting everyone to “act like a professional seller” now, I got a news flash for you. I have ALWAYS acted like a PROFESSIONAL, and I consider myself as one. Always have. I’m sure you do too. I’m proud of my record, and I know you are too (of yours, not mine :).

Personally, I consider high volume Powersellers UNPROFESSIONAL SELLERS. Their feedback stinks, their DSRs are low. They bit off more than they could chew, and it shows.

Mechelle:

I don’t really care if ebay “respects me”, I only care that there is a respect between me and my buyer. As I’ve said, it still is. I am still proud of what I do and how I handle myself. As long as the buyers keep coming, it’ll be OK.

Patricia1On 05.05.2008 at 1:38 pm Said:

JJH - from what you’ve posted here, I know you are a good and honest seller. I think all of us who keep posting here are fighting for the good honest sellers. You didn’t strike a nerve with me. I was simply trying to impress on you that some businesses like Exxon have you between a rock and a hard place and don’t feel they need to treat you with respect…Exxon knows the future and so they are grabbing all they can now! Most other businesses that are in this for the long run do show customers respect. They know what side their bread is buttered on…which is why I gave you those examples. There is no emotion attached to treating your customers with a certain respect - you want that customer’s business…its simply good business sense and a sense that MOST giant successful businesses practice. Check out Walmart for a prime example…certainly a big robust business - yet, return an item. It is taken back with no questions asked. In effect, they are respecting their customers, pleasing their customers because they want them back. Business 101 is just not cold, cut and dried. The human aspect certainly does enter into it. I retired from a giant conglomerate - bigger than ebay. They treated their customers with respect I witnessed it over and over again thru my years there.

SandiOn 05.05.2008 at 1:49 pm Said:

Not sure if it was the links to ratings in my port or censorship, but my post did not make it, so here it is again minus links, just the info from the links

jhh@
Antiques, “one ofs”, and unique items, for NOW anyway are still safe.

You are wrong. When one reads through the world news, ebay has not lost buyers due to the bogus reasons they are giving. The global slowdown is directly attributed to fakes on the site.

eBay’s bad press regarding being the largest fence operation in the world is what is killing sales - especially in the areas you mention. You can find websites that list the sellers who are selling fake antiques and they actually track when and how many reports to ebay it takes to get the seller booted.

To really fix the problems, ebay would have needed to expend real monies - and they have proven they are not going to do that. They are taking the short-sited approach of replacing current sellers with the buys, targets, Wal-Mart’s that they think they simply do not have to police.

I guess ebay even understands they have no credibility in the marketplace and is trying the shortcut method to correct that. I suspect their thinking is look, instead of spending money to really police the site, let’s give large retailers a discount for lending THEIR credibility to the marketplace.

But back to my statement about shortsightedness, ebay opted to ignore consumer satisfaction ratings for large retailers or they would have checked buy.com’s consumer rating because it is in the 80% bracket - people rate large retailers lower than the small seller.

Bizrate rates buy.com: 86% positive in last month, 3% neutral, 11% negative

Reseller rates buy.com: Six-Month Rating: 2.14 / 10

Yahoo says buyers rate buy.com: 2.5 overall, 3.5 price, 3 shipping options, 3 delivery, 3 ease of purchase, 2.5 customer service

Certainly nothing to write home about, but having bought from buy.com I found them no different than other large retailers.

The reviews do make one wonder if the dsr’s here on ebay are really as they appear given the negatives they have received. One would think the people who are leaving negatives are leaving 4 & 5’s on the DSR.

@Mr. Liebermann

Bottom line, I can buy it cheaper off ebay. Please do not insult my intelligence; any retailer coming on to ebay will pass the ebay fee (discounted of course) on to me. I understand business 101. ebay does not bring any value to me as a buyer to pay more money for anything.

SandiOn 05.05.2008 at 1:55 pm Said:

Sorry, should have added yahoo was out of 5 withe 5 being excellent, 1 being pooor.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 2:03 pm Said:

JJH,

I think the point trying to be made here is that every seller is different. It is wonderful that you have always acted professionally, even thought you are a hobby seller. That is your choice. However just because you choose to operate a certain way, as a hobby seller, doesn’t mean that other hobby sellers should be held to the same standards. Not every seller is the same, and the “magic” of eBay was that it had embraced these differences. Unfortunately, they are not embracing this uniqueness anymore.

Yes, I do consider myself a professional seller, in both sales volume and attitude, which is why I do not feel that eBay currently has the stable selling environment and reliable class of buyer necessary for my business. However just because I am a professional seller, does not mean that I am going to hold or require everyone who sells anything to operate according to my standards. It is unrealistic and unfair on a site like eBay.

If someone chooses to ship items once a week, and makes buyers aware of this in the ad, then I do not believe the seller should be punished with low stars. I do not believe that the stars should be used to compare sellers, but as a rating of whether the seller abided by the terms they stated in the ad. Sellers should be compared to others who offer like levels of service and not to just one cookie cutter standard.

If eBay was a site like Amazon, which has very strict standards for those who sell there, then yes, I would agree only sellers who are able to operate to that level should sell there. However eBay has been widely known as the place where anyone, regardless of ability and experience, can sell. In fact, probably the only place on the web where inexperienced people can successfully sell their items.

I believe the “emotional” resistance is coming from that area. However there are also several professional sellers who are also voicing their concerns and disappointment because eBay is no longer a reliable selling venue for them - no emotion - just a smart, financial business decision.

I’m glad you are doing well on eBay and I hope that you continue to do well. However, please try and take into consideration the valid feelings of those who may not be fortunate enough to have the ability, resources, or time to dedicate to their hobby as you do. That is who eBay was created for and who eBay is unceremoniously dismissing as no longer necessary.

AmberOn 05.05.2008 at 3:00 pm Said:

Crunchy, I actually think that small sellers SHOULD be held to the same standards as the “professional” sellers.

The problem lies in the fact that due to low volume, they are actually being held to a higher one.

I also think that the word “professional” is being misused all over the site by sellers, buyers and ebay corporate. I consider myself a professional seller. I’m low volume, low $, and do not depend on ebay for my entire income BUT… I also am a registered DBA, reported my income on my taxes, and have a Seller’s Permit in my state that requires/allows me to collect sales tax.

In essence, I have a business and therefore should be treated as a professional.

For the most part, I think the hobby sellers do a far better job with customer service than the larger powersellers.

I do, however, think there is a minimum level of professionalism that all sellers can achieve. Shipping once/week isn’t a terrific business practice. Expecting everyone to ship daily is unreasonable,too. There’s a happy medium. Most online retailers ship within 3-5 business days and charge extra for expedited “processing.”

The same is true for communication. No, a lot of sellers DON’T do this full time. They have “day jobs.” So expecting them to remain on call via email 24/7 is unreasonable. Asking them to respond within 48 hrs is not.

The same is also true with S&H. I do not have access to the negotiated rates that Amazon or BN does. I worked for Barnes and Noble–I know what they paid to ship UPS. Of course they can offer free shipping, when the average shipment is pennies on the dollar of what most ebay sellers are charged.

There are so many things ebay could do to make the DSRs more fair–or to help sellers achieve better DSRs–but it is in their own self interest to keep the DSRs as low as possible for the majority of sellers. Why else would they warn buyers with a message asking them if they’re sure they want to leave all 5 stars?

@Patricia,
Thank you for your post I do have a website that I started several months ago. I’m opening another on the Moon and just listed my first item on the River. This buy.com deal AND the store changes that I’m sure are coming are impossible for smaller media sellers to cope with. I’ve weathered the storms for 5 years, but this time I’ve finally had it. With the constant changes on the site, it’s amazing to me that any business would want to invest time or inventory here.

Patricia1On 05.05.2008 at 3:44 pm Said:

Amber that’s the spirit! You’ll do just fine.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 4:02 pm Said:

@ Amber

“Crunchy, I actually think that small sellers SHOULD be held to the same standards as the “professional” sellers.”

I agree that the difference seems to be with the definition of a “professional seller”. Like you, I believe a professional seller is one that operates as a business, is registered as a business, and has the necessary time and materials to be able to communicate, package, and timely and economically ship items just like other retailers. I do not use the term “professional seller” to indicate sales volume, sole employment, or high sales amount. When I write “professional seller” I’m strictly referring to ability. Also, I think I wrote “hobby seller”, which I use to make a distinction between that and “small sellers”, since I feel they are different levels as well.

When I write “hobby seller” I equate that with someone who is simply cleaning out their garage, old belongings, etc. Similar to an online garage sale.

When I write “small seller” I equate that with someone who sells on eBay, is registered as a DBA, but runs their eBay business as a side note - after personal business is taken care of, kids, day job, dinner is over, etc. I also see a small seller as one who tries to operate at the level of a professional seller, but is hindered in part by cost of shipping material, time, and resources.

So my question is, according to the above definitions:

1. Is everyone who sells on eBay a professional seller?

2. Should everyone who places an item on eBay be a professional seller?

3. Should eBay no longer be a venue where the average joe, non-professional seller, can successfully sell their item?

If the answer to any of the above is “yes”, then it would seem that the recent changes are heading in the right direction to get that result.

“The problem lies in the fact that due to low volume, they are actually being held to a higher one.”

While I grant that one neg will hurt a low volume seller worse than a higher volume seller, just to play devil’s advocate, there is a flip side to that. If a seller has a high volume, then that increases that seller’s likely hood of receiving more negs than a low volume. They have more sales (opportunity) to receive them, a greater chance of making mistakes, and a greater chance of attracting bad buyers.

LurchOn 05.05.2008 at 4:13 pm Said:

Looking at their return policy - does this really “enchance the buyer experience?” And will PayPal be making special allowances in the event of disputes to support buy’s return policies?

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 6:42 pm Said:

Out of curiosity, how many sellers think they could get away with having the following terms of sale on eBay, without low DSRs, for very long in the new buyer experience environment?

“Processing Time = One or two days to get your order looked at, your credit card authorized (much longer for checks and money orders), and to make sure the ship-to address is on file with your credit card company. If your card does not authorize, your order will not proceed to the next step. If your ship-to address does not match your bill-to, or is not on file with your credit card company, your order will not proceed to the next step. If your order does not proceed to the next step, we will notify you via your order status and by email with instructions on how to proceed. If no action is taken your order will be cancelled.”

* Doesn’t Buy need to specified this in the actual listing, especially the part of the credit card payment shipping address? I thought eBay wanted all Terms to be stated in the actual listings so the buyer would be well informed.

“Minimum time: 1-2 business days. We do not process your order on Saturday, Sunday or holidays. Allow an additional 1 to 2 business days for weekend orders.”

* I thought eBay thought it was a good practice for sellers to be available on weekends too?

—
“Back Order: This product is not currently in stock at any of our warehouse locations. We have ordered the product from our supplier, but have not received a date yet as to when we will receive this product. We will update you on the status of your order via email.”
- and -
“On Order: This product is not currently in stock. We have ordered the product from our supplier and will ship your item as soon as possible. We will update you on the status of your order via email.”

I noticed that most of the negs Buy gets has to do with canceling orders after-the-fact because the item is out of stock. Doesn’t eBay state the seller is expected to have the item in stock, unless pre-approved to sell certain items as pre-orders?

MechelleOn 05.05.2008 at 7:43 pm Said:

That is what i pointed out yesterday- how many times can someone sell something they don’t have and just refund (when they get around to it no less) and it be acceptable business practice and conforming to the excellent buying experience? Not only is this mentioned in the neg and neut it is in the positive as well. They have a clear pattern of collecting money holding it until whenever they decide to refund based on the sell of a product they didn’t even have. This is not an example of a business proving an excellent buyer experience.

Well maybe it’s alright with eBay if they sell products they don’t have while consuming a potentially large amount of money from a buyer to hold until the product becomes available or until they feel like refunding. eBay clearly has a different set of rules for Buy than they do for us.

They get a lesser fee cost and don’t have to follow any of the “best practices”. If this isn’t proof of eBay’s disingenuous proclamations of creating a marketplace with a better buying experience rooted in excellent customer service- than I don’t know what is. I think it is looking more like eBay’s new feedback policies are in fact a maneuver to allow the crooked buyers to trash the reputations and businesses of sellers.

Why the abuse eBay? Why not just suspend all of us so you don’t have to deal with us any longer? Is it really more pleasurable for you eBay to actually cause us to suffer? to watch us fall under assaults and defamation? I don’t understand what is inside of you people- how can anyone be so incredibly cruel?

I understand that Corporate officers are responsible for ensuring the viability of the company protecting the investment of the shareholders, but you people take cut throat to an extreme that I could never have imagined. eBay seems poised with its hand in the popcorn tub waiting for the psychological massacre they have set into motion to begin. Are you on the edge of your seat? does it seem like it is taking forever for the curtains to be drawn?

AmberOn 05.05.2008 at 9:21 pm Said:

1. Is everyone who sells on eBay a professional seller?

No

2. Should everyone who places an item on eBay be a professional seller?

No, BUT a certain level of professionalism should be expected and is relatively easy to achieve.

Paypal shipping w/carrier pickup is available for most hobby sellers. No excuse for late shipping, there. Most hobby sellers aren’t going to mess with international sales etc that require trips to the PO.

3. Should eBay no longer be a venue where the average joe, non-professional seller, can successfully sell their item?

Everyone should have equal access and pay the same fees IMHO. Special deals for anyone goes against the very core of ebay values.

As for devil’s advocate ( ) I agree that larger volume sellers encounter more potential whacky negatives…but I’ve also seen large volume sellers with terrific feedback. It depends on the category and the level of hands-on experience a seller has. Someone with a personal knowledge of their product will do far better than someone using a dropshipper or 30 different warehouses. If everyone involved in the business knows their product and values their customers, the feedback (overall) will reflect that. If the buyers are just a credit card number or $ sign, the feedback will reflect that as well.