eBay partners with Buy.com

Patricia1On 05.04.2008 at 10:03 pm Said:

@ Mechelle -

“Sears, walmart…… are entirely irrelevant not only do they not have feedback.”

Don’t know where my last post went, but go to walmart dot com and put Hoover Vacuum in search - pick out any model then scroll to down that model’s page - you will see feedback from customers who bought - AND they have a star rating system. Who knows…perhaps this is where ebay got the idea of DSR’s - we all know it wasn’t an original idea on their part

MechelleOn 05.05.2008 at 1:02 am Said:

Okay- I see what you meant- so Sandi demonstrated that we can buy direct through Buy.com completely bypassing eBay entirely- not even go through eBay to get to Buy.com in some odd way and buy the book including shipping cheaper on Buy.com than on eBay.

And your point about the book was yes we can buy it cheaper on the Buy.com site from one of their third party dealers.

Thanks for the tip Sandi and thanks Usher Lieberman for the confirmation that we can absolutely get a better deal on Buy.com than we can on Buy’s eBay store.

Amber I am so sorry that you are having to experience such pain. I know what it feels like to have it slap you that all you have put into something is just gone. As soon as eBay made their announcement in January I knew I could no longer be here- not because of feedback (I have superb feedback) not because of DSRs (they are already anonymous so should not change) not the fee changes (I’m probably the only seller who did get a decrease)- all the things that hit the nerves of so many (though I feel they are wrong and can very easily damage any of us giving the right nut job) meant nothing to me I was floored that eBay just told the world that I was a crooked piece of trash that has to extort people into leaving me positive feedback, that I rip people off through shipping, that I don’t know how to provide a good buying experience for my own customers. Due to all my failings and corrupted character eBay had to step in on behalf of my customers to protect them from me.

I just can’t live my life participating in a relationship with anyone or anything that thinks of me and portrays me in a such a way to the public. We all have to have some self respect - there has to be a point in which we say ok that was over the top out of line and won’t be tolerated- and for me eBay hit it.

It wasn’t and isn’t a singular emotion for me - for a few weeks every time I thought about closing my store I would just start crying. I have put so much time and emotion into my store and my customers the thought of walking away was excruciating. I have only been doing this for 15 months, yet it seems that the rest of the world stopped when I started. Due to needing to get inventory counted, pictures taken and edited, and listings up while trying to figure out the nightmare of setting up my store I had moved myself downstairs just until I got those things set up- couple weeks should do it I thought.

Well I have lived downstairs for 15 months, and I don’t mean I spend my days working down here - I mean I live down here. My family lives upstairs and I live down here, I only leave to go to my sons’ various events , when we went camping last summer for a week I drove to my mom’s house an hour away from camp everyday and spent the entire day into the night working on the endless list of tasks involved with selling on eBay, I don’t watch TV. I do nothing but my eBay store- absolutely nothing until lately - these discussion boards have become my breaks.

With all that I have set aside and the days I’ve gone without sleep- yes days straight - because I am answering questions from international buyers, or designing new parts for my store, taking pictures, updating inventory, listings, revising, purchasing, packaging……. I have- in a generous estimate- averaged 4 hours of sleep a night for 15 months. My husband caring about me has a few occasions let me sleep into the afternoon on Saturdays- well my words were not thank you , because I just missed a shipping day. I understand he must be tired of looking at his wife and her new pasty white skin and sunken black eyes, but shipping days must be used and if that means short sleep times than that’s what it means- I must ship!

With all I had put into this - everything I have in me- to read the trashing that was done to me and every other seller on eBay in sweeping fashion I just crumbled- I was outraged that they would dare say that I am a fraud, that I am a thief, that I am out to harm my customers. How could someone, anyone, anything assign such terrible traits to me - to all of the eBay selling community- without even knowing who we are, what we do, or how well we do it? EBay’s actions and words are unforgivable assaults. I have been working on my new store designing it and making sure everything is just right so that my customers will know they can count on me being in that one place from then on and not worry about if they’ll need to set their favorites to another site again. If not for my regular customers I would have closed my store and just worked on my new store, but they are frequent shoppers and I’m their first stop in my category on eBay and for a couple the only stop on eBay at all, so I didn’t want to just flip the off button on them, but they know we’re moving and the only thing they have to say about it “is let me know where we’re moving to“.

I am sure glad I didn’t have 5 years- 10 years, or even a month more than my own time put into selling on eBay, because it is so painful just the 15 months I wouldn’t want to know how the betrayal feels after 5 or 10 years.

The problem with eBay- they don’t see that we are people - they don’t see us at all

CAMOn 05.05.2008 at 2:12 am Said:

This move seems to be very short-sighted. Last year, Meg Whitman talked about the “core” vs. “store” and bringing back the magic. How much “magic” is a site cluttered with new cra…er..stuff I can get cheaper at my local mall, target or walmart?

In my mind, bringing a more retail experience from an eBay perspective means.. easier faster one click checkout, accurate relevent search and/or even standardized shipping and payment methods (ie..paypal only). As much as sellers (me included), kick and yell about those, I assume they are coming - to enhance the buyer experience.

I don’t, however, consider, giving special deals so someone can list 300,000+ retail items as fixed price (in “core”), neither fair to “core sellers” who struggle to pay for core listings and turn a profit, nor even a good business long term practice. If a business cannot affort inerstion fees and FVF it means their items are not selling at a rate that can guarantee profit, and any “deal” that eBay gives them provides an unfair advantage over like sellers who have built eBay with their blood sweat and tears.

BUT, the biggest slam my head against the wall in frustration wondering if you can see the forest through the trees is customer retention. Why is Buy.com selling on this inefficient channel when they have their own web footprint? Well..yes..CUSTOMER ACQUISITION. How short-sighted is it to give away your customers (ebay buyers) to Buy.com and expect them to buy from eBay next time..when they can just hop on over to Buy.com website and pick it up in 1/10 the searching time (of course, Buy.com will use this as a customer acquisition tool and when no longer a good channel will be off eBay). What do you thing, Buy.com is NOT going to market to these customers directly?? Hello???

Congratulations..You’ve just made eBay a giant Billboard for large retail companies to finally get their hands on eBays buyers, opening up that cookie jar, which they have envied and lusted after for years. Giving away the golden goose for a quick payday.

Good Luck with that..

CAM

JJHOn 05.05.2008 at 6:05 am Said:

To Mr. Leiberman,

Thank you for providing a link to the “flea market” quote. It does appear to have been twisted out of context by many people to suit their own feelings.

Except, in the article you referred me to, this quote, by the author took me by surprise too: “[of the many changes] These have included new ways of searching for items, to downplay the flea market feel.”

OK, so what’s WRONG with the “flea market feel”?

What makes something “look or feel like a flea market.”? Why must this change?

Also, regarding the blog, I would have never seen your reply had I not scrolled back looking for something. Richard: I really do not like that new posts can all of a sudden appear in the middle of the blog comments where many may never see them. I think it is critical to have ALL new comments appear at the end, and refer back to previous comments.

Can I make a suggestion? Each topic entry should have a NUMBER, which is also a link, so that it can be quickly referred back to.

I’d also REALLY like to have a PREVIEW ability so out message can be checked for correct format, typos, spelling, and the like, before submitting.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 6:27 am Said:

Richard,

“It’s my assertion that Pierre was talking about the conditions and approach to the Marketplace at the company’s founding.”

If it was really true, that Pierre was referring to what he HAD meant by “a level playing field”, then why did you write in your blog: “Pierre addressing some of the recent changes in the Marketplace. He also addresses what he MEANS by “a level playing field” and how it RELATES to the eBay experience… “?

In both words “MEANS” and “RELATES” you used the PRESENT tense. Why would you have done that unless you felt that he was referring to the PRESENT meaning of “a level playing field” as it relates, right now, to the current eBay experience?

Not to mention the fact that Pierre clearly states in the interview:

“I never meant that everyone, regardless of the quality of the service they provided, regardless of their experience on the site, regardless of their feedback rating, everyone should be treated exactly the same way. That wouldn’t make any sense. What I meant by level playing field was that everyone should be given equal opportunity and if you can use that opportunity, different people, individuals use their opportunities differently. And if you can use that opportunity differently and advance more and provide better service to customers, if you’re a seller, and so forth, then you should be rewarded for that. And I think that is entire consistent with the level playing field.”

What Pierre is really referring to, in the above quote, are the special privileges, discounts, and search rankings awarded to Power Sellers over other everyday sellers. He believes that eBay allows everyone the opportunity to become a Power Seller, if they wish, and should a seller achieve that status, then they should be rewarded with special privileges and deals above other sellers. This is basically a defense for the recent Power Seller discounts and PayPal protections for Power Sellers only.

More over, if you wanted to apply this to the idea of outside retailers, then the current deal with Buy.com would be in violation of this. Sellers, no matter their size or service level, are not being given the same OPPORTUNITY as Buy.com to have their listings ever show up in the same manner. Nor are they being provided the OPPORTUNITY to get the same pricing deal as Buy.com.

Remember, Pierre stated that they should always go back to their core principles. He never said that it was okay to change or eliminate them - just re-interpret them in accordance to the current online marketplace. So please explain who one can possibly reinterrpret the “level playing field” priciple in a way which shows the current Buy.com deal is in agreement with?

“The thing I was concerned about, with level playing field, is that I didn’t want to have sort of artificial barriers placed on newcomers, and to have people, by virtue of their stature outside of the eBay community, somehow be treated better, [Donahoe says, "Right"] you know special deals behind the scenes because their a big retailor and we want them to come on to eBay, and that kind of stuff. That would’ve been, THAT’S (present tense again) a disaster. That’s what I meant by a level playing field. [Donahoe comments, "Right".]

Note how Pierre changed his wording of “would’ve been” to “that’s a disaster”? Clearly he corrected himself to demonstrate that he feels such an idea would always be a bad idea on eBay. He did not mean past tense.

Sorry Richard, but you’re belief that Pierre was only reffering to the past, as opposed to the present, is clearly wrong. This is shown in both what you wrote and what Pierre stated. Honestly, it appears now that you are simply backtracking, not unlike the idea that “no plans” simply means “no time frame”.

As I have stated before, I understand your need and desire to defend your employer, it is only natural. However if you expect for people to take what you write seriously, then you really need to becareful of what you write in the future, especially if you plan to change it on a whim, depending upon what new change eBay decides to role out.

I think what is really hurting your creditability is that you wrote before, present tense, and now you are backtracking by saying it was refering to the past.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 6:28 am Said:

“@ Patricia — Buy will be held accountable to buyers through the same DSR system as all eBay sellers.”

Just keep in mind that actually means that eBay has established “no time frame”, as of yet, to when Buy.com will no longer be held accountable to the DSR system. Even Amazon made an exception to their “no feedback removal” policy when a large retailer accidentally listed a designer pillow for $10 and refused to honor the hundreds of sales that it made at that price. Several buyers left negative feedback for that retailer and Amazon removed everyone of them.

If a reputable company like Amazon has done that in the past, then I have no doubt that a company like eBay, which seems to lack a reputable character, will do exactly the same thing, should it work to their advantage.

====

On a more personal note, I have bought several times from Buy.com in the past, and if I ever purchase from them in the future, then I will go directly to their site - not eBay. For one, I like to deal directly with the merchant’s website, and second, I wouldn’t want to purchase anything, in any way, shape, or form, which would help eBay to accrue more traffic and/or fees at this time.

eBay is right about one thing, buyers are emotional and they do not like to be manipulated. Knowing how eBay treats those who sell on their site, I would never want to endorse or encourage such actions from buying there. When I’m buying - I’m entitled to this emotional response and perspective.

AmberOn 05.05.2008 at 8:04 am Said:

“The problem with eBay- they don’t see that we are people - they don’t see us at all”

You’re right Mechelle, and that’s the most galling part. It’s all about the numbers, and it’s clear they have no clue what differentiates eBay from the plethora of other online venues.

I find it ironic that they’re hollering about customer service when it’s been my experience that the super volume powersellers are the real problem here. They have the volume to impact far more buyers in a negative way than a single low volume seller. It simply doesn’t show as readily due to the volume. 99% of my bad buying experiences were with those high volume sellers–impersonal and indifferent customer service, high shipping charges, etc.

Whereas I maintain my lily-white 100%, My DSRs are 4.9, 4.9, 4.8, 4.8 despite having a HUGE portion of my business as international. I’ve kept that 100%, despite the occasional lost package, the long transit times in the days of the surface M-bags, even the postal changes of last year.

I personally answer all emails; I recognize my repeat customers BY NAME; I offer specialized services that you will never find on the larger media venues.

All of that kept my buyers coming back to me AND EBAY.

Customer retention is important in the light of the dwindling traffic here–but eBay’s response is to drive that traffic away with Sponsored Links and back room deals with the high volume retailers.

As for the Shotgun Bride example above, I’d be surprised if they sell a thing. LOL The average ebayer would save $.75 or so off the list price and pay nearly $1 more in shipping than the same book on Amazon. So much for “pricing” improving the buyer experience.

MechelleOn 05.05.2008 at 9:53 am Said:

I agree customer retention is key and yes eBay apparently knows this in theory but has no clue of how to achieve satisfied customers and from what I hear the only reason most people remain seems to be due to the social and emotional ties to the other sellers in our category and to our customers. I have many friends that are my direct competition and I share ideas with them on how to bring up their sells and I even help them source product. I know most people think this is totally insane behavior for a business owner, but I have had more experienced bigger sellers help me over the past year with sourcing and advice and I don’t mind paying that forward. As one of them told me “there is enough room on eBay for everyone” and I see that as true.

A friend of mine who I met when she won one of my first auctions carries in her store 80% of the exact items as I do that we purchased together to attain a lower price for a quantity order, and over the past 14 months since we have been doing this we have shared a customer maybe 5 times all the rest are unique to our individual stores. I think this demonstrates that there is room on eBay.

My customers are emotionally tied to me as I am them. I have given them advice on how to handle situations when they are mistreated by other sellers- I have even walked a couple through the dispute process with PayPal. I advised one of my customers not to succumb to the extortion of the negative from - yes a very large seller whose feedback clearly demonstrates her pattern of forcing feedback withdraws- not to withdraw her neutral to have the negative feedback that seller gave her in response to her neutral and then outright told her she would wear the negative if she didn’t withdraw her feedback.

What really ticked me off about that seller was she totally over reacted and took a very hostile approach to the situation. As is well known many of our customers don’t understand the significance of the feedback they leave. She left a neutral because it wasn’t a terrible experience, but not entirely satisfying, because the product was broken which she stated in the neutral while at the same time asserted that she believed it was a manufacturer defect and had nothing to do with the seller. I know this action so common with buyers annoys and frustrates us as sellers, but I think it is important to recognize that they are judging the experience as a whole not always entirely the seller and of course have no idea the consequences of a neutral for the seller which with justifiable reasoning should have no effect on their score. So I feel that as a experienced seller she should have explained the consequences of the neutral not hit her with a negative to get her to remove it.

What I’m getting at is eBay executives clearly are not part of the eBay community and don’t understand the emotional ties that seem to be more prominent than the typical marketplace social interaction. How often is a customer of a large chain retailer outraged if that dealer is treated unfairly? How often are their customers ready to defend them at all costs? How often do they have customers that will boycott right along side them? They don’t, because they are not people - tit is merely a customer and a seller exchanging money for goods without a second that once the transaction is complete.

Everyone talks about the uniqueness of eBay being the collectibles, but I think the uniqueness is in the people and their relationships. I think a large part of the difficulty with leaving eBay is because of these friendships not just the traffic as is evidenced by the large number of people who left eBay a long time ago yet still post on the discussion boards.

eBay does not understand this dynamic, because they don’t understand that we are people and our customers are people. Their ignorance is what is killing eBay, and will ultimately drive them out of business.

GailOn 05.05.2008 at 10:33 am Said:

Mechelle, eBay understands full well what it’s doing. Unfortunately for eBay’s longtime sellers, the truth about eBay has been the same since it went public. It’s just blatantly obvious with this last move. Buy.com lists a multitude of items, eBay’s numbers go up, stockholders are happy, eBay’s stock rises, corporate executives reap the benefits. There’s no emotion in eBay’s decisions. It’s all about the money.

MechelleOn 05.05.2008 at 10:50 am Said:

I agree eBay knows what they are doing- what I meant is their lack of understanding the dynamic of the eBay members within the marketplace is what is killing eBay.

Also, yes their is no emotion- how can there be when they choose to think of us as numbers and not people

JJHOn 05.05.2008 at 11:06 am Said:

I’m really surprised any of you are even bringing up the “human/emotion” and “we are people” card. This is a business, a PUBLIC business. It’s ALWAYS about the money. Period. You can’t view it beyond that.

Also, comments about ebay “killing itself”… Be serious. I mean really, ebay isn’t going anywhere. It isn’t going to go out of business. It isn’t going to even be hurt.

I hate all the changes as much as the rest of you, but anyone that thinks they can “bring ebay down” is just being naive.

AmberOn 05.05.2008 at 11:13 am Said:

“You can’t view it beyond that”

The human/emotion card is very important to what ebay is all about. If media BUYERS wanted an impersonal business transaction, they would go elsewhere.

It IS about the money. What you and ebay execs don’t get is that buyers aren’t going to be spending that money here for the same or inferior service they can get anywhere else on the web. The thing that drove sales, especially for me, was the human element you get here.

Patricia1On 05.05.2008 at 11:22 am Said:

@ JJH - this is really true. BUT we are their customers whether they wish to admit it or not. Right now, seller morale is at its lowest - ebay can’t keep their listings up without a gimmick and that gets worse and not better. For business alone, they need to find respect for their customers. Businesses who have no respect for customers lose them! I think the “shape up or ship out” declaration broke the camel’s back! What business doesn’t do PR work to keep their customers happy…this one…it feels it can just kick them around because it feels they have no choice.

JJHOn 05.05.2008 at 11:59 am Said:

I didn’t say those things to stir up any further emotions, I hope you know that. But this is business 101. ebay is like the electric company, like Exxon, link any other company. Money. Please the investors. Profit. Greed. I don’t believe for a minute that there is a huge public company left that doesn’t care only about “Numero Uno”, themselves. Customer service and caring is gone from virtually every company you can cite. For every customer lost, there is always another dummy to replace it.

That “seller to buyer” connection that Amber cites IS still there, believe it or not. For the kind of items I’m selling, I don’t have repeat customers. 98% of my sales are to a new person who I’ve never had contact with before and I’ll never have contact with again, and that magic is for the most part still there. ebay is killing that only in certain sectors, like commodities and retail items. Antiques, “one ofs”, and unique items, for NOW anyway are still safe.

MechelleOn 05.05.2008 at 12:25 pm Said:

@JJH

Given the reaction that sellers are having to these changes I think it is clearly an emotional issue for most and not just about money. eBay, and apparently you, may not want to acknowledge that the emotions of eBay members has been and continues to be a powerful element within the eBay marketplace it absolutely is. This is a unique characteristic that most companies don’t have, but it is very important to eBay’s success, because it means so much to both the people who sell on eBay and those that buy on eBay.

I think that the eBay community expects the same respect from eBay as we do from each other, and we have every right to that expectation. As Patricia said, we are their customers yet they don’t respect us,and most people don’t pay to be treated like crap outside of eBay and I think the people within eBay are tired of paying for it too.

A business that alienates its customers will eventually crash. Your assertion that eBay will never go away is naive. There have been equal and bigger businesses who have crashed over the years eBay is vulnerable to the same outcome- the same as we are. There is no business that will succeed without customers- it simply isn’t possible. As for the argument that there are always people to replace sellers who have left- the problem is that there will no longer be those more experienced members to help out the new comers such as those that helped me. I would not have made it the last 15 months without their help that is a reality for me and given the amount of new sellers that ask me for help I am guessing that for a large majority this has been driving the success of eBay so far. Without the help the customer turnover rate on eBay will be so high there will no longer be any constant for buyers to have faith enough in to continue to shop on eBay.

I’m not claiming I can bring eBay down- what I said is eBay is bringing themselves down and they are.