eBay partners with Buy.com

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 6:28 am Said:

“@ Patricia — Buy will be held accountable to buyers through the same DSR system as all eBay sellers.”

Just keep in mind that actually means that eBay has established “no time frame”, as of yet, to when Buy.com will no longer be held accountable to the DSR system. Even Amazon made an exception to their “no feedback removal” policy when a large retailer accidentally listed a designer pillow for $10 and refused to honor the hundreds of sales that it made at that price. Several buyers left negative feedback for that retailer and Amazon removed everyone of them.

If a reputable company like Amazon has done that in the past, then I have no doubt that a company like eBay, which seems to lack a reputable character, will do exactly the same thing, should it work to their advantage.

====

On a more personal note, I have bought several times from Buy.com in the past, and if I ever purchase from them in the future, then I will go directly to their site - not eBay. For one, I like to deal directly with the merchant’s website, and second, I wouldn’t want to purchase anything, in any way, shape, or form, which would help eBay to accrue more traffic and/or fees at this time.

eBay is right about one thing, buyers are emotional and they do not like to be manipulated. Knowing how eBay treats those who sell on their site, I would never want to endorse or encourage such actions from buying there. When I’m buying - I’m entitled to this emotional response and perspective.

AmberOn 05.05.2008 at 8:04 am Said:

“The problem with eBay- they don’t see that we are people - they don’t see us at all”

You’re right Mechelle, and that’s the most galling part. It’s all about the numbers, and it’s clear they have no clue what differentiates eBay from the plethora of other online venues.

I find it ironic that they’re hollering about customer service when it’s been my experience that the super volume powersellers are the real problem here. They have the volume to impact far more buyers in a negative way than a single low volume seller. It simply doesn’t show as readily due to the volume. 99% of my bad buying experiences were with those high volume sellers–impersonal and indifferent customer service, high shipping charges, etc.

Whereas I maintain my lily-white 100%, My DSRs are 4.9, 4.9, 4.8, 4.8 despite having a HUGE portion of my business as international. I’ve kept that 100%, despite the occasional lost package, the long transit times in the days of the surface M-bags, even the postal changes of last year.

I personally answer all emails; I recognize my repeat customers BY NAME; I offer specialized services that you will never find on the larger media venues.

All of that kept my buyers coming back to me AND EBAY.

Customer retention is important in the light of the dwindling traffic here–but eBay’s response is to drive that traffic away with Sponsored Links and back room deals with the high volume retailers.

As for the Shotgun Bride example above, I’d be surprised if they sell a thing. LOL The average ebayer would save $.75 or so off the list price and pay nearly $1 more in shipping than the same book on Amazon. So much for “pricing” improving the buyer experience.

MechelleOn 05.05.2008 at 9:53 am Said:

I agree customer retention is key and yes eBay apparently knows this in theory but has no clue of how to achieve satisfied customers and from what I hear the only reason most people remain seems to be due to the social and emotional ties to the other sellers in our category and to our customers. I have many friends that are my direct competition and I share ideas with them on how to bring up their sells and I even help them source product. I know most people think this is totally insane behavior for a business owner, but I have had more experienced bigger sellers help me over the past year with sourcing and advice and I don’t mind paying that forward. As one of them told me “there is enough room on eBay for everyone” and I see that as true.

A friend of mine who I met when she won one of my first auctions carries in her store 80% of the exact items as I do that we purchased together to attain a lower price for a quantity order, and over the past 14 months since we have been doing this we have shared a customer maybe 5 times all the rest are unique to our individual stores. I think this demonstrates that there is room on eBay.

My customers are emotionally tied to me as I am them. I have given them advice on how to handle situations when they are mistreated by other sellers- I have even walked a couple through the dispute process with PayPal. I advised one of my customers not to succumb to the extortion of the negative from - yes a very large seller whose feedback clearly demonstrates her pattern of forcing feedback withdraws- not to withdraw her neutral to have the negative feedback that seller gave her in response to her neutral and then outright told her she would wear the negative if she didn’t withdraw her feedback.

What really ticked me off about that seller was she totally over reacted and took a very hostile approach to the situation. As is well known many of our customers don’t understand the significance of the feedback they leave. She left a neutral because it wasn’t a terrible experience, but not entirely satisfying, because the product was broken which she stated in the neutral while at the same time asserted that she believed it was a manufacturer defect and had nothing to do with the seller. I know this action so common with buyers annoys and frustrates us as sellers, but I think it is important to recognize that they are judging the experience as a whole not always entirely the seller and of course have no idea the consequences of a neutral for the seller which with justifiable reasoning should have no effect on their score. So I feel that as a experienced seller she should have explained the consequences of the neutral not hit her with a negative to get her to remove it.

What I’m getting at is eBay executives clearly are not part of the eBay community and don’t understand the emotional ties that seem to be more prominent than the typical marketplace social interaction. How often is a customer of a large chain retailer outraged if that dealer is treated unfairly? How often are their customers ready to defend them at all costs? How often do they have customers that will boycott right along side them? They don’t, because they are not people - tit is merely a customer and a seller exchanging money for goods without a second that once the transaction is complete.

Everyone talks about the uniqueness of eBay being the collectibles, but I think the uniqueness is in the people and their relationships. I think a large part of the difficulty with leaving eBay is because of these friendships not just the traffic as is evidenced by the large number of people who left eBay a long time ago yet still post on the discussion boards.

eBay does not understand this dynamic, because they don’t understand that we are people and our customers are people. Their ignorance is what is killing eBay, and will ultimately drive them out of business.

GailOn 05.05.2008 at 10:33 am Said:

Mechelle, eBay understands full well what it’s doing. Unfortunately for eBay’s longtime sellers, the truth about eBay has been the same since it went public. It’s just blatantly obvious with this last move. Buy.com lists a multitude of items, eBay’s numbers go up, stockholders are happy, eBay’s stock rises, corporate executives reap the benefits. There’s no emotion in eBay’s decisions. It’s all about the money.

MechelleOn 05.05.2008 at 10:50 am Said:

I agree eBay knows what they are doing- what I meant is their lack of understanding the dynamic of the eBay members within the marketplace is what is killing eBay.

Also, yes their is no emotion- how can there be when they choose to think of us as numbers and not people

JJHOn 05.05.2008 at 11:06 am Said:

I’m really surprised any of you are even bringing up the “human/emotion” and “we are people” card. This is a business, a PUBLIC business. It’s ALWAYS about the money. Period. You can’t view it beyond that.

Also, comments about ebay “killing itself”… Be serious. I mean really, ebay isn’t going anywhere. It isn’t going to go out of business. It isn’t going to even be hurt.

I hate all the changes as much as the rest of you, but anyone that thinks they can “bring ebay down” is just being naive.

AmberOn 05.05.2008 at 11:13 am Said:

“You can’t view it beyond that”

The human/emotion card is very important to what ebay is all about. If media BUYERS wanted an impersonal business transaction, they would go elsewhere.

It IS about the money. What you and ebay execs don’t get is that buyers aren’t going to be spending that money here for the same or inferior service they can get anywhere else on the web. The thing that drove sales, especially for me, was the human element you get here.

Patricia1On 05.05.2008 at 11:22 am Said:

@ JJH - this is really true. BUT we are their customers whether they wish to admit it or not. Right now, seller morale is at its lowest - ebay can’t keep their listings up without a gimmick and that gets worse and not better. For business alone, they need to find respect for their customers. Businesses who have no respect for customers lose them! I think the “shape up or ship out” declaration broke the camel’s back! What business doesn’t do PR work to keep their customers happy…this one…it feels it can just kick them around because it feels they have no choice.

JJHOn 05.05.2008 at 11:59 am Said:

I didn’t say those things to stir up any further emotions, I hope you know that. But this is business 101. ebay is like the electric company, like Exxon, link any other company. Money. Please the investors. Profit. Greed. I don’t believe for a minute that there is a huge public company left that doesn’t care only about “Numero Uno”, themselves. Customer service and caring is gone from virtually every company you can cite. For every customer lost, there is always another dummy to replace it.

That “seller to buyer” connection that Amber cites IS still there, believe it or not. For the kind of items I’m selling, I don’t have repeat customers. 98% of my sales are to a new person who I’ve never had contact with before and I’ll never have contact with again, and that magic is for the most part still there. ebay is killing that only in certain sectors, like commodities and retail items. Antiques, “one ofs”, and unique items, for NOW anyway are still safe.

MechelleOn 05.05.2008 at 12:25 pm Said:

@JJH

Given the reaction that sellers are having to these changes I think it is clearly an emotional issue for most and not just about money. eBay, and apparently you, may not want to acknowledge that the emotions of eBay members has been and continues to be a powerful element within the eBay marketplace it absolutely is. This is a unique characteristic that most companies don’t have, but it is very important to eBay’s success, because it means so much to both the people who sell on eBay and those that buy on eBay.

I think that the eBay community expects the same respect from eBay as we do from each other, and we have every right to that expectation. As Patricia said, we are their customers yet they don’t respect us,and most people don’t pay to be treated like crap outside of eBay and I think the people within eBay are tired of paying for it too.

A business that alienates its customers will eventually crash. Your assertion that eBay will never go away is naive. There have been equal and bigger businesses who have crashed over the years eBay is vulnerable to the same outcome- the same as we are. There is no business that will succeed without customers- it simply isn’t possible. As for the argument that there are always people to replace sellers who have left- the problem is that there will no longer be those more experienced members to help out the new comers such as those that helped me. I would not have made it the last 15 months without their help that is a reality for me and given the amount of new sellers that ask me for help I am guessing that for a large majority this has been driving the success of eBay so far. Without the help the customer turnover rate on eBay will be so high there will no longer be any constant for buyers to have faith enough in to continue to shop on eBay.

I’m not claiming I can bring eBay down- what I said is eBay is bringing themselves down and they are.

Patricia1On 05.05.2008 at 12:40 pm Said:

JJH - you’re right they are like Exxon…you’re wrong - they’re not like the electric company. I get a reduced rate from them because of my limited income, same with my telephone and gas company. Same with my car insurance company who gives me a lower rate because I’m a safe driver and I’ve been with them a long time….so, yes, they ARE like Exxon - wrong, they are NOT like every other company. Not all businesses are run the way you say - and I know of no other company that tells their customers to shape up or ship out. My own customers are well treated - always with respect and the repeat buyers get little gifts, cards, sometimes free shipping and sometimes just a small surprise painting that I think they would like. I would never dream of telling them to shape up or ship out!!!! By the way, emotion doesn’t even enter this picture….good business sense does…or should! I learned at an early age NEVER to burn my bridges behind me no matter how much I may personally feel the person isn’t worth my time.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 12:46 pm Said:

@ JJH

I think the reason why so many are bringing in the “human/emotion” aspect is because that is what eBay is founded on, and in fact, what it still wishes sellers to be, in part.

If it was simply business, then eBay should not expect so much communication on the part of sellers to their buyers. eBay stresses that sellers should try and make their buyers feel special and valued.

Also keep in mind that a lot of people sell on eBay just to make a little extra money or as a hobby. They don’t intend is as a full-time business, and therefore it is emotional for them. Plus a lot of sellers started out on eBay from the very beginning, when starting a business was the furthest from their mind and eBay stresses a community selling/trading environment. eBay created and encouraged the formation of an emotional based marketplace, so is it really any wonder that a lot of people who sell on eBay do so with a lot of emotion?

Where I sell, nothing like that is suggested or expected of sellers. That isn’t to say that I do not do things to make those who buy from me feel special, it is just that it isn’t expected or required by the selling environment or the people who buy there. When I buy from a large, online retailer, I do not a warm, fuzzy feeling from the buying experience. I just want to pay for my item and have it delivered.

eBay expects sellers to operate as professional seller is some terms, but yet small sellers in terms of making the buyer’s experience a special, warm and fuzzy one.

SandiOn 05.05.2008 at 1:21 pm Said:

jhh@
Antiques, “one ofs”, and unique items, for NOW anyway are still safe.

You are wrong. When one reads through the world news, ebay has not lost buyers due to the bogus reasons they are giving. The global slowdown is directly attributed to fakes on the site.

eBay’s bad press regarding being the largest fence operation in the world is what is killing sales - especially in the areas you mention. You can find websites that list the sellers who are selling fake antiques and they actually track when and how many reports to ebay it takes to get the seller booted.

To really fix the problems, ebay would have needed to expend real monies - and they have proven they are not going to do that. They are taking the short-sited approach of replacing current sellers with the buys, targets, Wal-Mart’s that they think they simply do not have to police.

I guess ebay even understands they have no credibility in the marketplace and is trying the shortcut method to correct that. I suspect their thinking is look, instead of spending money to really police the site, let’s give large retailers a discount for lending THEIR credibility to the marketplace.

But back to my statement about shortsightedness, ebay opted to ignore consumer satisfaction ratings for large retailers or they would have checked buy.com’s consumer rating because it is in the 80% bracket - people rate large retailers lower than the small seller.

http://www.bizrate.com/ratings_guide/cust_reviews__mid–18893.html

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Buy

http://shopping.yahoo.com/merchrating/user_rv.html?merchant_id=1002688

http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/buycom/r/8554/

The reviews do make one wonder if the dsr’s here on ebay are really as they appear given the negatives they have received. One would think the people who are leaving negatives are leaving 4 & 5’s on the DSR.

@Mr. Liebermann

Bottom line, I can buy it cheaper off ebay. Please do not insult my intelligence; any retailer coming on to ebay will pass the ebay fee (discounted of course) on to me. I understand business 101. eBay does not bring any value to spend extra monies to simply buy it on ebay.

JJHOn 05.05.2008 at 1:24 pm Said:

To all, I’m sorry if I touched a nerve. I was just as angry and upset as all of you over the past few months. I’ve said some pretty strong and nasty things in other forums. I’ve calmed down now and come to see the reality of what has happened.

The difference perhaps, as I said, is that ‘magic’ is still working here.

Crunchy, and Patricia1;

I am that small seller you describe. I’m a hobby seller. Even when I was a Powerseller I was a hobby seller. I gave all my customers 100% of my attention. I always did, I always will. I wish I could reveal myself and let you all see my feedback, and all the comments left for me over the years. Comments like “He told me his basement was flooded from a hurricane but the item came right away anyway” and “Emailed he was in the hospital, hope you get better, ship when you can”.

I have the same emotional bonds you do to this place, which is why I’m not ready to give up. That magic is still there for what I’m selling. The DSRs are excellent, the FB is 100%. I don’t see the FB changes causing any trouble for me.

What DOES piss me off is I get no discount for this HARD WORK and EXCELLENT service. Well, now the powersellers can complain because buy.com got a better deal than they did. Tough noggies. Welcome to the new ebay.

As for ebay expecting everyone to “act like a professional seller” now, I got a news flash for you. I have ALWAYS acted like a PROFESSIONAL, and I consider myself as one. Always have. I’m sure you do too. I’m proud of my record, and I know you are too (of yours, not mine :).

Personally, I consider high volume Powersellers UNPROFESSIONAL SELLERS. Their feedback stinks, their DSRs are low. They bit off more than they could chew, and it shows.

Mechelle:

I don’t really care if ebay “respects me”, I only care that there is a respect between me and my buyer. As I’ve said, it still is. I am still proud of what I do and how I handle myself. As long as the buyers keep coming, it’ll be OK.

Patricia1On 05.05.2008 at 1:38 pm Said:

JJH - from what you’ve posted here, I know you are a good and honest seller. I think all of us who keep posting here are fighting for the good honest sellers. You didn’t strike a nerve with me. I was simply trying to impress on you that some businesses like Exxon have you between a rock and a hard place and don’t feel they need to treat you with respect…Exxon knows the future and so they are grabbing all they can now! Most other businesses that are in this for the long run do show customers respect. They know what side their bread is buttered on…which is why I gave you those examples. There is no emotion attached to treating your customers with a certain respect - you want that customer’s business…its simply good business sense and a sense that MOST giant successful businesses practice. Check out Walmart for a prime example…certainly a big robust business - yet, return an item. It is taken back with no questions asked. In effect, they are respecting their customers, pleasing their customers because they want them back. Business 101 is just not cold, cut and dried. The human aspect certainly does enter into it. I retired from a giant conglomerate - bigger than ebay. They treated their customers with respect I witnessed it over and over again thru my years there.

SandiOn 05.05.2008 at 1:49 pm Said:

Not sure if it was the links to ratings in my port or censorship, but my post did not make it, so here it is again minus links, just the info from the links

jhh@
Antiques, “one ofs”, and unique items, for NOW anyway are still safe.

You are wrong. When one reads through the world news, ebay has not lost buyers due to the bogus reasons they are giving. The global slowdown is directly attributed to fakes on the site.

eBay’s bad press regarding being the largest fence operation in the world is what is killing sales - especially in the areas you mention. You can find websites that list the sellers who are selling fake antiques and they actually track when and how many reports to ebay it takes to get the seller booted.

To really fix the problems, ebay would have needed to expend real monies - and they have proven they are not going to do that. They are taking the short-sited approach of replacing current sellers with the buys, targets, Wal-Mart’s that they think they simply do not have to police.

I guess ebay even understands they have no credibility in the marketplace and is trying the shortcut method to correct that. I suspect their thinking is look, instead of spending money to really police the site, let’s give large retailers a discount for lending THEIR credibility to the marketplace.

But back to my statement about shortsightedness, ebay opted to ignore consumer satisfaction ratings for large retailers or they would have checked buy.com’s consumer rating because it is in the 80% bracket - people rate large retailers lower than the small seller.

Bizrate rates buy.com: 86% positive in last month, 3% neutral, 11% negative

Reseller rates buy.com: Six-Month Rating: 2.14 / 10

Yahoo says buyers rate buy.com: 2.5 overall, 3.5 price, 3 shipping options, 3 delivery, 3 ease of purchase, 2.5 customer service

Certainly nothing to write home about, but having bought from buy.com I found them no different than other large retailers.

The reviews do make one wonder if the dsr’s here on ebay are really as they appear given the negatives they have received. One would think the people who are leaving negatives are leaving 4 & 5’s on the DSR.

@Mr. Liebermann

Bottom line, I can buy it cheaper off ebay. Please do not insult my intelligence; any retailer coming on to ebay will pass the ebay fee (discounted of course) on to me. I understand business 101. ebay does not bring any value to me as a buyer to pay more money for anything.

SandiOn 05.05.2008 at 1:55 pm Said:

Sorry, should have added yahoo was out of 5 withe 5 being excellent, 1 being pooor.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 2:03 pm Said:

JJH,

I think the point trying to be made here is that every seller is different. It is wonderful that you have always acted professionally, even thought you are a hobby seller. That is your choice. However just because you choose to operate a certain way, as a hobby seller, doesn’t mean that other hobby sellers should be held to the same standards. Not every seller is the same, and the “magic” of eBay was that it had embraced these differences. Unfortunately, they are not embracing this uniqueness anymore.

Yes, I do consider myself a professional seller, in both sales volume and attitude, which is why I do not feel that eBay currently has the stable selling environment and reliable class of buyer necessary for my business. However just because I am a professional seller, does not mean that I am going to hold or require everyone who sells anything to operate according to my standards. It is unrealistic and unfair on a site like eBay.

If someone chooses to ship items once a week, and makes buyers aware of this in the ad, then I do not believe the seller should be punished with low stars. I do not believe that the stars should be used to compare sellers, but as a rating of whether the seller abided by the terms they stated in the ad. Sellers should be compared to others who offer like levels of service and not to just one cookie cutter standard.

If eBay was a site like Amazon, which has very strict standards for those who sell there, then yes, I would agree only sellers who are able to operate to that level should sell there. However eBay has been widely known as the place where anyone, regardless of ability and experience, can sell. In fact, probably the only place on the web where inexperienced people can successfully sell their items.

I believe the “emotional” resistance is coming from that area. However there are also several professional sellers who are also voicing their concerns and disappointment because eBay is no longer a reliable selling venue for them - no emotion - just a smart, financial business decision.

I’m glad you are doing well on eBay and I hope that you continue to do well. However, please try and take into consideration the valid feelings of those who may not be fortunate enough to have the ability, resources, or time to dedicate to their hobby as you do. That is who eBay was created for and who eBay is unceremoniously dismissing as no longer necessary.

AmberOn 05.05.2008 at 3:00 pm Said:

Crunchy, I actually think that small sellers SHOULD be held to the same standards as the “professional” sellers.

The problem lies in the fact that due to low volume, they are actually being held to a higher one.

I also think that the word “professional” is being misused all over the site by sellers, buyers and ebay corporate. I consider myself a professional seller. I’m low volume, low $, and do not depend on ebay for my entire income BUT… I also am a registered DBA, reported my income on my taxes, and have a Seller’s Permit in my state that requires/allows me to collect sales tax.

In essence, I have a business and therefore should be treated as a professional.

For the most part, I think the hobby sellers do a far better job with customer service than the larger powersellers.

I do, however, think there is a minimum level of professionalism that all sellers can achieve. Shipping once/week isn’t a terrific business practice. Expecting everyone to ship daily is unreasonable,too. There’s a happy medium. Most online retailers ship within 3-5 business days and charge extra for expedited “processing.”

The same is true for communication. No, a lot of sellers DON’T do this full time. They have “day jobs.” So expecting them to remain on call via email 24/7 is unreasonable. Asking them to respond within 48 hrs is not.

The same is also true with S&H. I do not have access to the negotiated rates that Amazon or BN does. I worked for Barnes and Noble–I know what they paid to ship UPS. Of course they can offer free shipping, when the average shipment is pennies on the dollar of what most ebay sellers are charged.

There are so many things ebay could do to make the DSRs more fair–or to help sellers achieve better DSRs–but it is in their own self interest to keep the DSRs as low as possible for the majority of sellers. Why else would they warn buyers with a message asking them if they’re sure they want to leave all 5 stars?

@Patricia,
Thank you for your post I do have a website that I started several months ago. I’m opening another on the Moon and just listed my first item on the River. This buy.com deal AND the store changes that I’m sure are coming are impossible for smaller media sellers to cope with. I’ve weathered the storms for 5 years, but this time I’ve finally had it. With the constant changes on the site, it’s amazing to me that any business would want to invest time or inventory here.

Patricia1On 05.05.2008 at 3:44 pm Said:

Amber that’s the spirit! You’ll do just fine.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 4:02 pm Said:

@ Amber

“Crunchy, I actually think that small sellers SHOULD be held to the same standards as the “professional” sellers.”

I agree that the difference seems to be with the definition of a “professional seller”. Like you, I believe a professional seller is one that operates as a business, is registered as a business, and has the necessary time and materials to be able to communicate, package, and timely and economically ship items just like other retailers. I do not use the term “professional seller” to indicate sales volume, sole employment, or high sales amount. When I write “professional seller” I’m strictly referring to ability. Also, I think I wrote “hobby seller”, which I use to make a distinction between that and “small sellers”, since I feel they are different levels as well.

When I write “hobby seller” I equate that with someone who is simply cleaning out their garage, old belongings, etc. Similar to an online garage sale.

When I write “small seller” I equate that with someone who sells on eBay, is registered as a DBA, but runs their eBay business as a side note - after personal business is taken care of, kids, day job, dinner is over, etc. I also see a small seller as one who tries to operate at the level of a professional seller, but is hindered in part by cost of shipping material, time, and resources.

So my question is, according to the above definitions:

1. Is everyone who sells on eBay a professional seller?

2. Should everyone who places an item on eBay be a professional seller?

3. Should eBay no longer be a venue where the average joe, non-professional seller, can successfully sell their item?

If the answer to any of the above is “yes”, then it would seem that the recent changes are heading in the right direction to get that result.

“The problem lies in the fact that due to low volume, they are actually being held to a higher one.”

While I grant that one neg will hurt a low volume seller worse than a higher volume seller, just to play devil’s advocate, there is a flip side to that. If a seller has a high volume, then that increases that seller’s likely hood of receiving more negs than a low volume. They have more sales (opportunity) to receive them, a greater chance of making mistakes, and a greater chance of attracting bad buyers.

LurchOn 05.05.2008 at 4:13 pm Said:

Looking at their return policy - does this really “enchance the buyer experience?” And will PayPal be making special allowances in the event of disputes to support buy’s return policies?

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 6:42 pm Said:

Out of curiosity, how many sellers think they could get away with having the following terms of sale on eBay, without low DSRs, for very long in the new buyer experience environment?

“Processing Time = One or two days to get your order looked at, your credit card authorized (much longer for checks and money orders), and to make sure the ship-to address is on file with your credit card company. If your card does not authorize, your order will not proceed to the next step. If your ship-to address does not match your bill-to, or is not on file with your credit card company, your order will not proceed to the next step. If your order does not proceed to the next step, we will notify you via your order status and by email with instructions on how to proceed. If no action is taken your order will be cancelled.”

* Doesn’t Buy need to specified this in the actual listing, especially the part of the credit card payment shipping address? I thought eBay wanted all Terms to be stated in the actual listings so the buyer would be well informed.

“Minimum time: 1-2 business days. We do not process your order on Saturday, Sunday or holidays. Allow an additional 1 to 2 business days for weekend orders.”

* I thought eBay thought it was a good practice for sellers to be available on weekends too?

—
“Back Order: This product is not currently in stock at any of our warehouse locations. We have ordered the product from our supplier, but have not received a date yet as to when we will receive this product. We will update you on the status of your order via email.”
- and -
“On Order: This product is not currently in stock. We have ordered the product from our supplier and will ship your item as soon as possible. We will update you on the status of your order via email.”

I noticed that most of the negs Buy gets has to do with canceling orders after-the-fact because the item is out of stock. Doesn’t eBay state the seller is expected to have the item in stock, unless pre-approved to sell certain items as pre-orders?

MechelleOn 05.05.2008 at 7:43 pm Said:

That is what i pointed out yesterday- how many times can someone sell something they don’t have and just refund (when they get around to it no less) and it be acceptable business practice and conforming to the excellent buying experience? Not only is this mentioned in the neg and neut it is in the positive as well. They have a clear pattern of collecting money holding it until whenever they decide to refund based on the sell of a product they didn’t even have. This is not an example of a business proving an excellent buyer experience.

Well maybe it’s alright with eBay if they sell products they don’t have while consuming a potentially large amount of money from a buyer to hold until the product becomes available or until they feel like refunding. eBay clearly has a different set of rules for Buy than they do for us.

They get a lesser fee cost and don’t have to follow any of the “best practices”. If this isn’t proof of eBay’s disingenuous proclamations of creating a marketplace with a better buying experience rooted in excellent customer service- than I don’t know what is. I think it is looking more like eBay’s new feedback policies are in fact a maneuver to allow the crooked buyers to trash the reputations and businesses of sellers.

Why the abuse eBay? Why not just suspend all of us so you don’t have to deal with us any longer? Is it really more pleasurable for you eBay to actually cause us to suffer? to watch us fall under assaults and defamation? I don’t understand what is inside of you people- how can anyone be so incredibly cruel?

I understand that Corporate officers are responsible for ensuring the viability of the company protecting the investment of the shareholders, but you people take cut throat to an extreme that I could never have imagined. eBay seems poised with its hand in the popcorn tub waiting for the psychological massacre they have set into motion to begin. Are you on the edge of your seat? does it seem like it is taking forever for the curtains to be drawn?

AmberOn 05.05.2008 at 9:21 pm Said:

1. Is everyone who sells on eBay a professional seller?

No

2. Should everyone who places an item on eBay be a professional seller?

No, BUT a certain level of professionalism should be expected and is relatively easy to achieve.

Paypal shipping w/carrier pickup is available for most hobby sellers. No excuse for late shipping, there. Most hobby sellers aren’t going to mess with international sales etc that require trips to the PO.

3. Should eBay no longer be a venue where the average joe, non-professional seller, can successfully sell their item?

Everyone should have equal access and pay the same fees IMHO. Special deals for anyone goes against the very core of ebay values.

As for devil’s advocate ( ) I agree that larger volume sellers encounter more potential whacky negatives…but I’ve also seen large volume sellers with terrific feedback. It depends on the category and the level of hands-on experience a seller has. Someone with a personal knowledge of their product will do far better than someone using a dropshipper or 30 different warehouses. If everyone involved in the business knows their product and values their customers, the feedback (overall) will reflect that. If the buyers are just a credit card number or $ sign, the feedback will reflect that as well.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.05.2008 at 10:34 pm Said:

Amber,

“No, BUT a certain level of professionalism should be expected and is relatively easy to achieve.”

I completely agree, a certain level of professionalism should be expected. I think the part that I disagree with is that all sellers should have to reach the highest level of professionalism, which is what eBay seems to be expecting from sellers.

I think hobby sellers should have one level, small sellers should have a slightly higher one, and professional sellers should have to reach the highest level. I also think that certain privileges should be allowed for each level, above the other ones below, in recognition of the greater effort necessary to achieve that status.

As to shipping w/ carrier pick-up, I’ve read posts from several sellers through the forums over time who live in rural areas and do not have postal pickup available. Also, I would never leave packages outside of my house from pick-up, as I would be afraid that they may get damaged by weather or stolen. So I’m not sure that shipping solution is the right way for everyone, and therefor shipping on-time is not always that simple.

Not to mention personal illness or family emergencies. I can rely on my business partner to get out any orders on time, should any of those situations arise for me, but I’m not sure that a hobby seller, or small seller could always promise the same. I have never heard of a large retailer telling people that they couldn’t send out their orders due to a family emergency or illness. Severe weather, perhaps, but never for personal reasons.

As to the feedback, if receiving good feedback is simply a matter of knowing the product and valuing customers, then the recent changes to feedback should be of no real concern. However, on ebay at least, I think there is a bit more to ensuring good feedback, but only eBay has control over that.

LurchOn 05.05.2008 at 11:13 pm Said:

Crunchy and Mechelle - thanks for adding all of the words I wasn’t feeling well enough to type today

There’s also other issues there, too, including the restocking fee (as far as I know PP doesn’t usually allow for that? I think?)

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.06.2008 at 8:09 am Said:

Lurch,

The eBay help pages say that a merchant can charge a re-stocking fee, but I’m not sure if PayPal will honor that. The two divisions seem to have different and conflicting policies. The decision also depends on which PayPal employee you deal with at a given time.

Furthermore, eBay is all about the “buyer’s experience” right now. For most buyers I would imagine a restocking fee would qualify as a “bad buying experience”. Buy is a large corporation so it can probably get away with this, because eBay wants to keep them. Smaller sized sellers - not so much.

MechelleOn 05.06.2008 at 9:10 am Said:

No PayPal does not honor restock fees, but I’m sure there are different rules for Buy on this circumstance as well. I think it is safe to say that eBay’s new policies and clearly fees are solely meant for us and not any of the retail and/or large webstores.

What do you make of the announcement of there not being an eBay live next year?

LurchOn 05.06.2008 at 1:11 pm Said:

Crunchy - yep, that was my point - most of what they have in there does not lend itself to “enhancing the buyer experience” or creating “a better buyer experience.” And yeah - I was pretty certain PP would not normally honor a restock fee, nor do I think they’ll honor the defective product exchange clause in a dispute should buy stick to that, rather than the clause which reads “or at the sole discretion of Buy, the purchase price will be credited to the credit card used for the original purchase (or, if possible, through the original payment method such as PayPal).” I’m wondering if their deal with eBay gives special allowance for a lot of their TOS, return policies, etc.

They also have sections on digital downloads in both their returns and TOS, which are not allowed on eBay anymore (outside of classifieds - maybe they are also listing classifieds?).

I don’t think *this* will enhance the buyer experience, either: “9. No Responsibility To Sell Mispriced Products Or Services. Buy shall have the right to refuse or cancel any orders placed for products and/or services listed at an incorrect price, rebate or refund, or containing any other incorrect information or typographical errors. Buy shall have the right to refuse or cancel any such orders whether or not the order has been confirmed and your credit card charged.” Their stating right up front that they reserve the right to be a Non-Performing Seller. eBay is actually cool with this?

There’s also an awful lot of references to “our site” throughout their documents. Guess they’re viewing eBay as their site now.

And there’s also allowances for their third party sellers in their return policy (so it is possible all items listed will NOT just be buy’s inventory?): “For all purchases made from Marketplace Sellers, you will need to contact the Marketplace Seller directly to determine their applicable returns policy and to schedule any allowed returns. All credits, costs and expenses regarding such returns shall be borne by either you or the Marketplace Seller.”

And there’s a lot more in there that’s odd. So yeah, it really does bring into question this whole “enhance the buyer experience” bit. Anyone from eBay care to comment on some of these items? You did refer to this as a “partnership.”

LurchOn 05.06.2008 at 1:13 pm Said:

Oh the typos I’ve made. Yeah - how ’bout that preview function?

LurchOn 05.06.2008 at 1:40 pm Said:

The more I read, the better it gets. According to their TOS, they seem to lay claim to copyright of “the Site” (which would be stores.ebay.com). They further state “You also agree that Buy may, in its sole discretion and without prior notice to you, terminate your access to the Site.” - So as part of this partnership, buy can suspend a user from eBay?? And the link to their privacy policy is broken in their TOS.

CarolOn 05.06.2008 at 1:49 pm Said:

eBay’s new business plan can be described in one word: BORING. Certainly there is NOTHING exciting or anywhere near innovative about eBay’s wannbe mall craving. I almost feel sorry for their lack of imagination and desperation to impress Wall Street.

DagnyOn 05.06.2008 at 2:34 pm Said:

Lurch I think perhaps Buy did not edit those TOS from their site before posting on eBay.

If not, then eBay has truly thrown its Community Values out the window.

So, eBay are you going to police your new partner?

AmberOn 05.06.2008 at 2:38 pm Said:

“I think perhaps Buy did not edit those TOS from their site before posting on eBay.”

Makes you feel real comfortable with the accuracy of their descriptions, doesn’t it

DawnOn 05.06.2008 at 2:53 pm Said:

“So, eBay are you going to police your new partner?”

I noticed several listing violations in the handful of things I looked at in Buy’s store - prohibited links, miscategorized items, and a few listings that appear to be for ebooks, though the description was so vague, I couldn’t be sure. Of course, eBay never has policed those kinds of things; that’s our job.

AmberOn 05.06.2008 at 2:57 pm Said:

“if receiving good feedback is simply a matter of knowing the product and valuing customers, then the recent changes to feedback should be of no real concern.”

Nope, it simply means that those who truly know their niche have a greater probability of better feedback and fewer neg-happy buyers. There’s always going to be a few people who don’t understand the feedback process at all or simply can’t be pleased. And the larger volume sellers tend to have the volume to insulate them a bit.

And yes, ebay is responsibile in a great number of ways for the many jump-the-gun buyers out there. They’ve watched the trust erode on the site for years and done nothing. They encourage buyers to file disputes if they fail to leave feedback timely, then reward them with coupons for doing so. They use vague language and misuse the DSRs. Ebay is a large part of the problem–no doubt about that.

As for carrier pickup, I realize it’s not for everyone. But there are solutions for most sellers. I live in a rural area myself. Those without street delivery have to go to the post office anyway to collect their mail. If they can’t get there during the open hours, most people can use online postage and have someone else drop packages off for them.

I have to take 2 young children to the PO to mail my international packages–often during snowy conditions in winter. But I make arrangements to have my mom meet me there. I know of several disabled people who sell on ebay–they have others deliver their packages to the Post Office since they are not allowed/able to drive.

There are solutions to nearly every problem if you think creatively.

I just don’t buy most of the excuses some people come up with for late shipping.

Doctor-DealsOn 05.06.2008 at 3:59 pm Said:

The part of all of this besides the “Special Deal” for a big off eBay retailer that directly contradicts Pierre’s “Equal Opportunity” statements that bothers me the most is having Buy.com steal customers away from the eBay marketplace with their first purchase.

Buyers that would have returned to eBay for their next purchase will go to Buy.com instead because I am quite confident that Buy.com will include promotional marketing information both in the package as well as with follow up emails after the purchase under the guise of keeping the buyer up to date on the status of their order.

I have purchased directly from Buy.com in the past and the packaged contained returning buyer special offerings and the emails have never stopped since.

I see this as eBay whoring out its 200,000,000 user customer base to a rival marketplace. Many may not know, but Buy.com allows third parties to sell directly on their site, for a cut of course. Buy.com is a direct competitor with the eBay.com marketplace as well as the tens of thousands of eBay sellers that market the same products here on eBay.

EBay has invited the fox into the hen house to poach future customers away from all of us. All of that for a small cut of $750k in GMV a month??? How few buyers does Buy.com have to steal away from eBay to make this a loosing deal for everyone, eBay included? It costs eBay a ton of money to get and keep buyers, that is how they rationalized DSR’s right, and now eBay is selling them to a rival site, Buy.com, for a pittance???

Makes no sense at all to me….

DD

JewelrySellerOn 05.06.2008 at 8:41 pm Said:

Buy.com makes perfect sense if you look at it from the perspective of a key executive in a public stock company (like eBay).

As an exec, you are personally compensated more in stock and stock options than in cash. You are ‘incented’ to achieve certain ‘milestones’ such as raising the share price, increasing return on shareholder equity, etc.

As an exec, these incentives encourage short term thinking of 2-5 years - about how long the typical exec lasts at the top of a major corporation.

So, the Board of Directors incents the senior execs to make decisions which have short term goals - not to build or grow a successful business, if doing so requires risk or investment.

Execs, given these marching orders, make decisions that often are not in the best medium or long term interests of the company, its stockholders or customers.

They acquire businesses that are not a good match. They sell off assets that could be made to perform, but the risk is too high compared to the ease of divestiture. They make ‘deals’ that appear ’sensible’ in the short term (buy.com).

And, in 2-5 years, the execs are gone. They took with them ‘golden’ or ‘platinum’ parachutes of millions to billions of dollars in shareholder value. And the company they were running is usually worse off, not better than it was before their brief tenure.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.06.2008 at 10:30 pm Said:

Amber, “I just don’t buy most of the excuses some people come up with for late shipping.”

Fair enough.

I suppose I just think differently on the matter. I do not think that selling on eBay should be demanding or difficult for those who choose to not operate as a business.

You and I make the sacrifices and arrangements we do because we are running businesses. I just do not feel that a hobby seller (using my definition) should be required to make the same sacrifices and arrangements just to sell some old household items or collectibles on eBay. eBay used to feel the same way about that too.

Either way, I think this is may just be one of those things that we will just need to agree to disagree on.

MechelleOn 05.07.2008 at 3:14 am Said:

I got this from one of my customers today and I think it is a very good example of what makes trade on eBay different than everywhere else

Oh and she is from Turkey so I never would have known her- which is different than to have sold something and dropped it in the mail

Fragrances look so beautiful. Really they are very beautiful.
I really like the way you invest to your store. You always come up with a new idea and new stuff.
Looking through ECB makes my day, calms me, catches me!
You should be proud of yourself
Do not ever lose your excitement and love that you feel for what you’re doing.
I am sure of that there are a lot of people who think the same way like I do about how you see the life.
I think what is present in front of me is pretty much related to how you see life, treat life, feel life and how you care yourself and the other human beings.

She didn’t receive my package today and shoot me this email - she has been my customer since last July and is my friend- and for whatever reason she felt compelled to write me this today (well on the 6th). this doesn’t happen at large chain retailers, or other online shopping sites- this is exclusively an eBay experience- social networking- global social networking and trade. eBay is not just shopping-
there is emotional attachments on eBay and there is no other marketplace that reaches the world in both trade and most importantly allows for global socialization. Why would eBay want to exclude the social relationships that are in fact what has kept so many people here - those who only buy, and those that both buy and sell?

Patricia1On 05.07.2008 at 7:34 am Said:

@ Mechelle - I can second that. I’ve made some good friends from my customers. Some have even stopped here to visit. Others send me Christmas gifts and birthday cards. I wouldn’t have known any of them if not for ebay…the real ebay and not the plastic dollar sign ebay it is becoming. Perhaps, like your customer, I was conveying my gratitude to a seller when I finally found that corning teapot that I treasure. I sat down a week after giving her excellent feedback and wrote a note of gratitute at how she handled the sale and how she so carefully packaged my teapot. No…you don’t get that with big box stores…but then ebay doesn’t really care one whit about how we make our customers feel - they simply throw out “shape up or ship out”. Bottom line…revenue ONLY! I think we each need to face the fact that our ebay is dying and the new ebay that’s emerging sure doesn’t have a pretty face!

AmberOn 05.07.2008 at 9:07 am Said:

” Others send me Christmas gifts and birthday cards”

Ditto! My favorite was a bookmark sent to me by one of my Aussie customers. I have many ebay friendships–people I’ve sold to or purchased from with whom I chat on a frequent basis. I’ll email them personally if I get something in stock I know they’ve been looking for. It’s a far different ecommerce experience than you get anywhere else–most of us operate like tiny neighborhood brick and mortar stores. That is what made this place so special and that is what is being slowly strangled off the site. It’s the difference between the service you get from Walmart and the service you get from your neighborhood independent bookstore. In one, you’re an anonymous face with a credit card. In the other, you’re a customer, a person, and sometimes a friend.

Crunchy, I guess we do have to agree to disagree on that one. I think hobby sellers should have to make a minimal effort–they are, after all, collecting someone else’s money for the items they sell. It’s sort of a buyer-empathy thing with me. What is the minimum effort I would expect from a seller if I were a buyer? Most buyers, even allowing for the seller’s hobby status, would expect their items to ship within 3-5 days. Most buyers purchasing from professional sellers expect same day or next day shipment. Ebay’s DSRs undermine those allowances, though, I’ll grant you that

PermacrisisOn 05.07.2008 at 9:22 am Said:

@amber-

That’s what happens when you put people who do not buy or sell, in charge of the world’s largest buying and selling website. (Not the world’s largest for long, though… not the rate they’re going.)

The heads coming into ebay looked at ebay’s infrastructure and not at the activity taking place on the site. Remember, this was a place where you could put up a test auction entitled “What is this?” and sooner or later someone would tell you what you had. Ebay was a tool, a utility knife where one blade didn’t interfere with the others and you could use it for a bunch of different things. They are going to make it into a single purpose meat slicer.

Another thing they don’t realize or at the very least care about, is that ebay turned many cottage industries on their ear. A lot of brick and mortar shops turned into ghost towns because of ebay, and all that activity moved onto here. Now it is being told to leave, but the old locations are gone and cannot be returned to.

There are even whole cottage industries that were born on ebay, and subsequently killed by the recent Download Decision (which I understand, is also being silently enforced onto CD-R digital products, in an unannounced police action– Richard, check into this).

I had a HUGE new niche marketspace that was absolutely untapped, a business activity that died out in the 50’s when the cost of materials became cheaper than labor. In light of the recent U.S. price increases however, it’s now ready for a comeback. Just as I’d positioned myself to sell it on Yahoo however, ebay kicked off their backroom / antitrust-violating ad deal. Just 1 month later, Y Auctions died. We now know why.

Before I could launch the product on ebay, BLAMMO… JD cut loose with both barrels. In retrospect, I.m glad. I’m glad I waited. Now these crooks won’t share in the spoils. I will keep it under wraps until a strong venue emerges. It’s been around since the ’50’s a few more years won’t hurt. I can wait.

The question is, can ebay?

JJHOn 05.07.2008 at 10:43 am Said:

The “Buyer Experience”…

I feel I must share with you an email I received from ebay Customer “support” about an item of mine that was pulled for “Keyword Spamming”. My crime was I used the phrase “like new” in the description. When I wrote to support I strongly protested the cancellation of the listing on those grounds, and reported that 6200 other listings existed on the site containing the phrase “Like New” in the title. Here is my reply.

I should also add it too 8 days to receive a reply (the reply has been edited slightly to remove redundant info, personal information, and links. No wording has been changed):

Dear J……,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your listing for “XXXXXXXXXXXX Lens Like New Beautiful” that was recently ended for being in violation of eBay’s Keyword Spamming policy.

I understand your listing was ended for containing the text “Like New” and that you’d like some clarification on this issue.

Sellers are not permitted to use comparison terms in the titles of their listings to compare the condition of their item.

For example, stating that the item is “like new,” “not new,” or any use of the words “new” if the item is used, is a violation of this policy. If the item is a new item, it may be described as such. However, if the
item is used, regardless of how little it may have been used, it may not be described as “new” in any way.

There are other terms that you may use to state the condition of your item, such as “gently used” or “lightly used.”

Using these types of comparisons may affect members’ ability to effectively search for items, as they may be taken to a listing that offers something other than what they are searching for. This policy is designed to provide a better buying experience on eBay by reducing the number of irrelevant listings that members search results produce.

I realize it was not your intention to violate this eBay policy. Be that as it may, since we have no way of knowing a seller’s intent when they list their items in a certain manner, we must take all information in a listing at face value.

For more information about Keyword Spamming, please visit: [link removed]

We’d like to be able to communicate directly with our members before removing any listings from eBay. Unfortunately, due to the limited amount of time that listings are on the site and the varying schedules
of eBay sellers, we’re simply unable to do so.

When a listing goes against one or more eBay policies, we make every effort to reach the most appropriate decision based on the information that’s available to us at the time.

Also, we understand your concern that there are other listings that may be violating the same policy. Please report these listings to us. We rely on our members’ reports to ensure a safe and positive shopping experience on eBay. Rest assured that we will review the listings and take appropriate action.

To report a listing, please follow these steps:

[removed instructions on how I can report those 6200 other listings, and "It can take up to 72 hours for the Community Watch Team to investigate your report."]

As you’ve been given a notice regarding policy violation, please don’t take it as a personal attack on you or your credibility. Our intention is to help educate and bring into compliance as many listings as
possible.

I understand your frustration regarding this matter and apologize for the inconvenience it caused you.

Sincerely,
XXXXXXX

eBay Customer Support

–Did anyone fall of their chair laughing?

Remember, it’s ALL “to provide a better buying experience on eBay”. Wouldn’t want to have people find something they might not want. Now maybe they can’t find something the DO want.

I don’t know about you, but I like to know if something is new, used, or like new.

So be it.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.07.2008 at 6:14 pm Said:

Amber, the specific expectations that you have outlined for hobby sellers here seem perfectly reasonable to me.

I completely agree that a hobby seller should be able to and expected to ship their items within 3 to 5 days. I just do not believe that they should be marked down if they do not ship like professional sellers (same or next day), especially if they clearly state the 3 to 5 day shipping time frame in their ad.

I would also expect a professional seller to ship the same day or next day. Plus I agree that eBay’s DSRs do not make room for those allowances between these different levels of sellers, but should.

So perhaps we really do not disagree after all…

permacrisisOn 05.07.2008 at 7:10 pm Said:

“Using these types of comparisons may affect members’ ability to effectively search for items, as they may be taken to a listing that offers something other than what they are searching for.”

Uh, hello??? Were have I seen that before… oh yeah BEST MATCH???? Great, ebay. Now go in the corner, and punish yourself.

Buncha item hiders.

Well… at least ebay is (slowly) learning that having a buyer “taken to a listing that offers something other than what they are searching for” is bad.

HeadbeaterOn 05.07.2008 at 8:02 pm Said:

Last I heard, women make up 52% of the population. That leaves 48% of us guys. Here’s a clue - MEN DO NOT look to an “experience” when we buy ANYTHING!

We want in and out be it B&M or a website and WILL shop where that happens. NO fluff.

Ebay, and I can safely speak for MILLIONS of sellers, I am profoundly dissapointed in your corporate actions.

I am also over ANYTHING to do with your entity in ANY capacity in the future.You’ve made decisions - so have I.

HeadbeaterOn 05.07.2008 at 8:17 pm Said:

Paraphrased “No corporation cares of nothing but the money”

TRUE!But that works both ways. Smart business’s also placate the VERY people that enables their wealth - frustrating as that may be at times. Remember, IT’S all about the money - Have’nt we all established that point already?

EVERYDAY I do things I don’t want to do for business to keep that business. To do otherwise…….,well.

china714On 05.08.2008 at 1:07 am Said:

Michelle,
Just wanted to say I agree with most of all you have said on all these posts you’ve hit the nail on the head, I have been harmed by these Bold’ changes, emotionally and mentally, to change the script so drastically with no good sense, People have not changed that much from 5 years ago, 10 years ago, as far as wanting a different buyer experience, even Pierre seems less relaxed then from 1995 keeping up with these changes, haste makes waste didn’t their mama ever teach them this? I want the same experience, in buying that I had 5 years ago, I want that great flea market item, that great seller.