eBay partners with Buy.com

Scott @ TradingAssistantJournalOn May 3, 2008 at 1:53 pm Said:

Richard,

I appreciate your views on this subject and the transparency brought on by Randy Smythe’s - My Blog Utopia post…

Unfortunately I think this “Partnership” with Buy.com may re-kindle the firestorm of a few short weeks ago.

Sellers on eBay will not be assuaged by the limitation of only one listing per SKU. When Buy.com can flood the market place with 150,000 SKU’s and turn those items over 8 times per month at what must be a reduced cost, we are no longer dealing with a level playing field.

If eBay plans on offering reduced pricing for bulk sellers, and that seems to be the case, then you better advise Usher and the Execs to get ahead of this story. Look for a way to offer the long standing volume “customers” of eBay a way to partake in the same offer.

Otherwise, it seems eBay is simply telling all of the sellers who are smaller than Buy.com to go elsewhere, which may be the plan, but if it is… better to tell them sooner than later.

I am not normally this direct with my posts, here or on my own publication… And I apologize for my directness. But this deal does not sit well when only one company essentially is granted a license to steal by gaining reduced price access to core search in exchange for a “undisclosed” terms.

Peddle fast Usher, I think this story will be a job to shape in your favor without more information.

Dave_WhiteOn May 3, 2008 at 3:05 pm Said:

Richard,

I appreciate your comments. What it will mean for your future remains to be seen.

Recent remarks by Lorrie Norrington regarding the “buyer experience” and “a retail marketplace” have become amazingly obvious very very quickly.

No more will eBay sellers see the “equal opportunity” that Pierre talked about in his video interview. The partnership with Buy.com (which by the way just entered into a strategic agreement with ChannelAdvisor) rings the final bell for small to medium businesses and individual sellers on eBay.

From a business standpoint this is a very smart move for both eBay and Buy.com. eBay has decided that hundreds of large corporate accounts are much easier to deal with than millions of individual sellers.

Top sellers on eBay will no longer be small to medium sized businesses. Plain and simple. Sellers on the site will be those large businesses with tens of thousands of items.

This business model works in today’s corporate environment for eBay. It does not work for individual or small to medium busiesses, and so those sellers very simply will need to find other marketplaces as it is very clear they will not be selling on eBay if not today, by this time next year, at least as we know the site today.

MistyOn May 3, 2008 at 6:38 pm Said:

Richard I personally have no problem with retail competition they don’t sell what I sell, I am happy with the knowledge that we will not be crowded out.
What concerns me is their fee structure to incorporate this change to retail, I feel this is unreasonable to those of us who do not sell retail items and ask that a separate tier and fee structure be created for those of us who are not retail.

Formerly Known As MarikaBooksOn May 3, 2008 at 7:31 pm Said:

Of course you will be crowded out, Misty. That’s the New Ebay way. Shove the little guy aside and to the bottom of the heap in favor of the Buy types.

And there is already a different fee structure for those who are “not retail.” YOU will pay more to subsidize the special deal that Ebay cut with Buy.

Buy is only the beginning. Which big retailer will be next to shove aside the little guys who helped to make Ebay management rich? Coming soon to a category near you.

MistyOn May 3, 2008 at 8:49 pm Said:

@Formerly Known As MarikaBooks
I know and understand exactly what you are saying and I do not disagree with you at all. I do think it is silly on their part to give a low priced retail high volume item a better deal over a high priced quality low volume item when the end result is practically the same. So this was basically the point I was trying to make.

MistyOn May 3, 2008 at 9:13 pm Said:

Also I don’t see how retail items will effect my category.

Concerned ebayerOn May 3, 2008 at 9:24 pm Said:

Make them run .99 cent no reserve auctions and file UPI’s for NPB’s.

See how long they last!

SandiOn May 3, 2008 at 9:43 pm Said:

I guess ebay simply does not really get it. Why would I come to ebay.com to buy something from buy.com?

ebay is slow, the search is useless and right or wrong, I would have the perception it would cost less buying direct. Afterall, ebay charges “the regular seller” 12.75% in FVF for store items. Even if buy.com was getting a break, I would still know there was an ebay markup in there somewhere.

I would be curious if the deal with buy.com excludes them from some of the apsects the “regular sellers” must endure, such as ads on their listings, DSRs, etc - because if ebay claims all that is for a “better buying experience” wouldn’t that apply to ALL sellers?

With DSRs, you do have to wonder about the industry standards of customer satisfaction - and you have to look at the retail industry high of 80% - ebay going to ding buy.com if their DSRs hover around the 3-4 rating? Their customers will be different, they know they are purchasing from a big company, one that will not instill loyalty like a small seller does. Come on, I have a couple of my sellers on my Christmas card lists, and I am on theirs - never would occur to me to send buy.com a Christmas card.

Additionally, I would want the option of paying direct via my credit card and not have to use paypal.

It will be interesting to watch from the sideline. ebay may have boxed themselves in in ways they have not thought through. One of the themes I have noticed in the various election year poohla is a theme of the America people, at least, are looking for trust, intregity, moral character - ethical behavior.

When all this falls apart in ways ebay had not calculated, how can they publically state their normal pr & try to alter what was good for the “buying experience” is now “this” because the buy nows of the world refuse to allow some of this crapola to inpend their business.

eBay got alot of bad publicity in the past months and threw sellers under the truck, the press love to kick the “big corporate bad guy” when the door is flung open for them.

I have found through the years of owning a business, people stay true to form, the way Donahue thinks about the current sellers will ultimately be no different than he thinks of his “retail” merchants. I also know from experience, the mindset at the top trickles down to the employee who cleans the bathroom. ebay’s infection will ultimately cause it’s death.

But for now, I will simply write buy.com a letter with copies of my pruchases from them and explain I will no longer buy from them as long as they are attached in any form to ebay. I understand I can’t effect change, but I can make sure I do not support it when I disagree with the ethical nature of the practices occurring.

Richard, loving the job still?

SandiOn May 3, 2008 at 9:47 pm Said:

P.S. Curious too, exactly how much “PASSION” is buy.com going to have about ebay?

Never mind, I almost spewed my hot cocoa thinking about that one.

I suspect Donahue would prefer less passion.

Patricia1On May 3, 2008 at 10:17 pm Said:

I’m guessing they don’t even have DSR’s or have to abide by anything else us lowly sellers have to put up with. I’m guessing they will be treated the same as walmart is treated.

Well, I doubt they’ll replace art but it doesn’t matter because during the years from 2004 to now, they have effectively destroyed it. With the coming of best match that kind of finished it for small art sellers. I imagine best match will be aimed at sellers like buy.com and the rest will trail behind. This is probably the beginning of turning ebay into retail - more and more retail and less and less small sellers till we’re all gone. I’m glad they can’t see me thumbing my nose right now. Guess they’ll have to try this out - they’re bound and determined to do it…I’m only hoping we get a viable substitute in the meantime so that when ebay figures out one more huge retail company isn’t as lucrative as they think - then I’m hoping they won’t be able to lure small sellers back again! I can dream, can’t I?

HenriettaOn May 3, 2008 at 11:15 pm Said:

Richard your personal thoughts in the last paragraph undoubtedly are shared by any decent person, unfortunately it has been proven over and over again the last few years that once you get into the 1M plus per year bracket any decency has long since flown out the window.

Patricia & Sandi
Buy.com currently has DSRs of 4.8 across the board. I seriously doubt that the status of their DSRs will affect the special deal they got because they do not have to abide by the multiple choices rule either.

Only thing I am curious about is the response of the Pesa/ECMTA group who had such a lovely get-togher in New Orleans last week.

We live in interesting times. The numbers will tell in the end.

http://www.redinkdiary.com

Patricia1On May 3, 2008 at 11:28 pm Said:

Henrietta - do you think whatever DSR’s they have and whatever they’re rated that it would effect their standing as sellers or their placement in best match. I seriously doubt it.

SharronOn May 4, 2008 at 12:14 am Said:

Since the DSRs are annonymous, how do we really know that buy.com’s DSRs are being accurately reflected in their feedback?

MechelleOn May 4, 2008 at 12:24 am Said:

You know what I don’t understand is how eBay gets away market manipulation. Why hasn’t anyone called them on their manipulating our auctions in the name of a “better buyer experience” with the true intent of increasing conversion rates so they can collect fees be damn with the rest of their customers- rig the auction to eBay’s benefit or your not getting what you paid for- that is their scam.

I was scrolling last night and I noticed some ads for shopping.com at the bottom and they were the exact brand of makeup I was searching at the time- so the shopping.com ad was advertising Sephora- nice! the real kicker was that I noticed as I would hit the bar going down that as it neared the next page bar - the page would drop - passing the last 3 auctions and force the exposure of the shopping.com ad. Also, the shopping.com sephora ad was on every single page of search results- some have 50+ pages and that ad was exposed on that many occasions forcibly even.

Every search I did for all the different brands I sell had a shopping.com with a competitor peddling the same brand as all the sellers who paid for their auctions to be shown- paying for the eBay.com site and supporting the build of eBay’s other shopping site.

My question

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM eBay YOU CAN BRING ALL THE BUYERS TO US, BUT YOU CAN’T BRING BUYERS TO YOUR SHOPPING.COM SITE? Maybe that’s because you don’t bring anything to us you little fools- again your existence is relative to our letting you be. If this site goes down- eBay Inc. will crash hard - nothing else eBay holds is independent. They are 100% nothing without all of us- nothing nothing nothing

Funny, I know I am nothing without my customers,and I thank them for choosing to buy from me. It really does work better - I have happy customers who send me personal emails expressing their pleasure with our transaction. From the way I feel and what I see your communications regarding your services are nothing to brag about- hell I would be crying if my customer’s felt and said the things your customer’s do and say about you. It’s a good thing I have self-respect, pride, and integrity so I will never have to experience the hatred and disgust from my customer’s that yours feel about you.

[Sentence edited: see comment policy]

SandiOn May 4, 2008 at 12:33 am Said:

but back to what I said about price, I just picked the first item that came up, a book called Shotgun Bride. I can buy it on ebay from them for 7.20 and some change, 4.85 shipping (12.05 total), or go straight to buy.com and buy the same thing for Price: $4.73, Shipping: $2.85 (7.58 total).

Or The Truth About Money, ebay I have to pay 12.06+6.15, but direct I only pay 11.35+4.55.

ebay offers me NO VALUE as a buyer to want to pay more. What ebay is more trustworthy, safer than buying direct from buy.com? Of course not. To simply use ebay’s search, ebay should be PAYING me for the extra time it takes to find what you are looking to buy for goodness sakes.

I don’t need ebay to buy new things for more money.

What I did need ebay for was finding those one of a kind gems someone found at an estate sale, or the one of a kind sculpture that fits perfect in my living room, or that one of a kind eames era paper weight. For that I was willing to spend hours searching.

I was willing to pay more for used from a small seller because I could not buy it RETAIL. That’s what made ebay special.

MistyOn May 4, 2008 at 1:29 am Said:

[Quote] “I was willing to pay more for used from a small seller because I could not buy it RETAIL. That’s what made ebay special.”

Thank you Sandi you proved my point exactly. ;)

dennyOn May 4, 2008 at 3:32 am Said:

Just one more nail in the coffin of eBay. eBay used to be THE place to find the obscure and unique - soon it will be just another wasteland of the mundane and usual - overpopulated with the sameness of the mass retailers. Perhaps a deal with Walmart could be worked out too???? Who will want to search through all the chaff to find a single grain of wheat??? We delighted in eBay becoming our full time living 4 years ago now we are only saddened by every announcement. We used to put our efforts into improving our listings and merchandising - now we put our efforts into creating our own UNIQUE web site away from the crowd.

JJHOn May 4, 2008 at 7:19 am Said:

Anyone who sells the type of consumer or commodity items that buy.com has pushed over to ebay is essentially screwed, and I feel sorry for them. For the “flea market” seller, I see absolutely no impact from this move. I don’t sell what they sell, so it has no impact on me.

However, regarding Pierre’s statement in his video about the “level playing field”, you can put whatever spin you want on it (”oh, he was referring to back then, not today”), [sentence edited: see comment policy], and I don’t think you’re going to win any brownie or trust points from sellers. You’re just going to push more away who are currently “on the fence”. However, as we’ve seen over the past few months, does that really matter? Does management really care? I think the answer always was, ans still is, no.

@Sandi

I can buy it on ebay from them for 7.20 and some change, 4.85 shipping (12.05 total), or go straight to buy.com and buy the same thing for Price: $4.73, Shipping: $2.85 (7.58 total).

Interesting. Buy it for less on buy.com then through ebay. Interesting.

Well, that is and always will fall under the basic rule of “shop around”. Now that you’ve made me aware that any “buy” listings I may come across probably cost more, I will never buy something from buy.com through ebay. So whose loss is that?

What I did need ebay for was finding those one of a kind gems someone found at an estate sale, or the one of a kind sculpture that fits perfect in my living room, or that one of a kind eames era paper weight. For that I was willing to spend hours searching.

And why do you feel that’s changed? That’s just the sort of thing I would sell, which is why I contend that this buy deal has no impact on the flea market seller. There is still a market for “one of” items, and best match has no effect on this sort of item when there might only be a few of them posted. I still sell plenty of “one of” item where I’m competing with no more than a handful of other listings. Never more than one page worth, sometimes less.

Randy SmytheOn May 4, 2008 at 7:42 am Said:

@JJH,

You are absolutely correct. This move will have no impact on sellers like you, but sellers in my old category (Media) are going to struggle, big-time.

eBay is moving to the Mall strategy where their are several huge anchor stores along with lots of little shops like yours.

It was the local Hardware Store, Video Store, Music Store, etc that were killed by the big Anchor Stores in the malls. The same thing will happen on eBay, but the vintage and collectibles shops will survive.

Formerly Known As MarikaBooksOn May 4, 2008 at 8:24 am Said:

Quote: “but the vintage and collectibles shops will survive.”

I have to respectfully disagree. We’ve already seen the Chinese take over those categories with their fakes. (Art categories, as well) What’s to stop Ebay from offering Buy-type deals to sellers like that? Not one darned thing, IMO. We KNOW counterfeits don’t really bother Ebay. And soon the lion’s share of legitimate collectibles will be crowded out, too.

When Ebay is clearly spitting on media sellers with this Buy arrangement, why would any of you assume they won’t do the same to you in your catgeories? If they get the chance, they surely will.

Randy SmytheOn May 4, 2008 at 8:48 am Said:

@ Formerly Known As MarikaBooks,

Logic would dictate that eBay wants to improve the “buyer experience” not ruin it, so the counterfeit and Chinese fakes will eventually be dealt with. It probably isn’t a priority right now. Collectibles and vintage items are not a high volume business. eBay will concentrate on their high volume categories first, bringing in an anchor store or two to drive the majority of business and concentrating on the retail-like merchandise.

After they’ve “fixed” that they will deal with the collectibles and vintage stuff. I talk to a lot of sellers in this category and they are doing fine right now — JJH mentioned he is doing fine.

This is the “New eBay” and they will not change their direction, they are committed. Sellers of commodity items are going to have a real tough time, compared to the good ole’ days but they will adjust.

Used commodity type product should actually thrive on eBay now that Buy.com is setting the bar.

HeadbeaterOn May 4, 2008 at 9:09 am Said:

What I’m doing myself, and perhaps all should consider, Is to NOT do business with these big corps. that undermine my ability to survive in the marketplace. In time I believe ALL these corps @ ebay will see devaluation of their brand through the disgust of their being associated w/ebay. ANY seller currently trying to sell on ebay is, in fact, financing their own financial demise. If ebay wants to change their bussiness model let them do it on their own dime. To sit back and literally pay someone to ultimately put you out of business, well, to me, they deserve what they’re about to get!

Scott @ TradingAssistantJournalOn May 4, 2008 at 9:43 am Said:

‘Change’ is scientific, ‘progress’ is ethical; change is indubitable, whereas progress is a matter of controversy.
Bertrand Russell
British author, mathematician, & philosopher (1872 - 1970)

We have always lived in times of controversy, eBay will change as eBay sees fit.

Welcome to the Revolution

For one PeSA Members take on this climate of change…

Read Here:
Amazonation of eBay? http://snurl.com/2730n

Patricia1On May 4, 2008 at 10:25 am Said:

Well….they haven’t looked around if their idea is anchor stores with lots of little shops in between. I bought several large items online recently…but not from the likes of ebay. I bought a new vacuum from Walmart…picked it out and paid for it online and then they let me know when it was in. Picked it up at the store and headed right out the door with it. No inconvenience….no SHIPPING charges!!! Same with Best Buy, same with KMart, Sears, Target, JC Penney - almost any large store one can think of! So, now ebay - full of themselves as usual think they have an original idea? Heavens no - they’re killing the only original and unique idea they have…and trying to become a mall???? How silly is that? We always wanted competition for ebay and now they’re walking right into the biggest competition in the world and all of them are simply a URL away!

Malls are not new to the internet. Right after I started online back in 95 there were large “malls” popping up all over…for a fee (monthly or yearly) you could have a “store” in these malls and they would advertise and bring in the customers. Funny….none of those are in existence now. So much for the big “mall” idea LOL

Patricia1On May 4, 2008 at 10:32 am Said:

@ Randy:

“Logic would dictate that eBay wants to improve the “buyer experience” not ruin it, so the counterfeit and Chinese fakes will eventually be dealt with. ”

I certainly hope you are right. Chinese fakes are rampant in the arts categories. I would hate to see the largest gathering of artists and original art for sale anywhere in the world continue to be plagued by chineses fakes who not only peddle fakes but steal the artist’s work off ebay, print it and sell it right on ebay! Do the chinese still get free listing? That would really rub salt in an already festering wound.

Randy SmytheOn May 4, 2008 at 11:01 am Said:

@Patricia1

I hope I’m right also. I just think it is farther down on the priority list.

As to the Mall idea: I think eBay is creating a hybrid of the concept, the success will be in the execution. The jury is still out on their ability to execute and yes the play on words was intended.

They may have to execute some smaller sellers to accomplish their goals.

Formerly Known As MarikaBooksOn May 4, 2008 at 12:38 pm Said:

“Logic would dictate that eBay wants to improve the “buyer experience” not ruin it, so the counterfeit and Chinese fakes will eventually be dealt with. ”

When did logic and Ebay ever go together?

It’s all good. I won’t say “I told you so” if it turns out that “I told you so” is appropriate. :-)

JJHOn May 4, 2008 at 12:46 pm Said:

@Headbeater

What I’m doing myself, and perhaps all should consider, Is to NOT do business with these big corps. that undermine my ability to survive in the marketplace.

Many of the commodity items ‘buy’ is offering I wouldn’t consider buying through ebay or any mail order. I’d just buy it locally. I need these things NOW, not in a week. If I needed a vacuum cleaner, or some other household appliance or electronics, I’d go to Walmart or Target or Kmart. If I needed a router or computer item, I’d go to Micro-Center. You get the picture.

ebay is NEVER going to be a retail destination for me. For my limited online buying ebay falls into the “looking for the oddity item” location.

Example: I just needed to replace my UPS battery. I could buy it from APC for $37 plus shipping, or I could find one of a dozen surplus dealers selling the same exact battery (as a generic battery, but still the identical item)for $15-20 including shipping. This is how I’m going to continue to view and use ebay.

I don’t know what focus group(s) ebay has been gathering it’s data from to determine they need to become retail, but that’s not for me. Unfortunately though, in this process, they are destroying established business or both large and small sellers who deal in these items, but when the quest is for the bucks and the stock price, the human factor NEVER matters.

@Richard Brewer-Hays

I’ll take a shot at it again. I know you edited a sentence of mine earlier, and maybe I shouldn’t have referred to Pierre that way, but I’m going to restate it again, [and if you have to edit it again, so be it] that the video, and what has just happened, at the very least makes him look like a lier and someone that the community he so fondly “respects” can no longer trust. Is that better?

SandiOn May 4, 2008 at 1:05 pm Said:

“And why do you feel that’s changed? That’s just the sort of thing I would sell, which is why I contend that this buy deal has no impact on the flea market seller. “

I respectfully disagree, ebay is no longer the first place, or second place, or even thrid place I look for anything.

Ebay has ignored so many of the real issues of the site, the search is too slow, often times there is something broken, I don’t consider it safe and it’s not the scam sellers, it’s the variety of security issues within the site itself.

Add I take issue with the ethical landscape possessed by those in charge, while I can’t change their minds with logic, I don’t have to support their efforts with my money.

Sadly, you must not have listened to Donahue’s statements, it’s the flea market he wants to get rid of. He has openly and publically stated as such.

“Now that you’ve made me aware that any “buy” listings I may come across probably cost more, I will never buy something from buy.com through ebay. So whose loss is that?”

That impacts everyone. ebay will become known as the place that costs more or it is fake.

News articles around the world have already documented the volumne of fakes on ebay, now they can add overprized.

All of ebay’s noise and they have yet to address the real number one reason they are losing buyers globally.

MechelleOn May 4, 2008 at 1:46 pm Said:

I don’t understand why eBay is partnering with a company who’s feedback is littered with their selling products they don’t have and not refunding for days (one person stated 19 days after they paid). That is against eBay policy and less than excellent customer service- I have had a couple miscounts in my inventory and as a result sold something I didn’t have, but I hunt that product down purchase it regardless of cost and ship it. I don’t refund several days later (often without any communication)informing my customers that I sold them something I didn’t have and they are SOL. Not only is their practice of selling products they don’t have reflected in their neutrals and negatives (which are insanely high) they are commented on in their positive feedback as well.

Well, I’m confused of what eBay considers a better buying experience

Items not received for weeks

not received at all

unreasonable length of time for refunds

selling what they do not have

no communication when they made an error or when their customer contacts them

excessive shipping- charged someone 35 dollars that fit in a flatrate box which right now costs 8.95.

And- one of the customers mentions excessive shipping fees and when I looked at the item it said free shipping- now a customer may mark a 4 on free shipping but they don’t claim excessive charges- so clearly eBay let them revise their listing which we are not allowed to do. I constantly have to end listings that had quantity with a sold item because I needed to revise. Apparently they can change anything they want.

So can eBay layout their idea of excellent customer service? it appears that they do want us to provide the level of customer service that eBay and buy.com provide.

JJHOn May 4, 2008 at 2:38 pm Said:

Well, I’m confused of what eBay considers a better buying experience

excessive shipping- charged someone 35 dollars that fit in a flatrate box which right now costs 8.95.

@Michelle

Consider this though. Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, etc, all operate mail order operations. There is no consumer feedback on those operations that we can see like there is on eBay, so how can you compare that to any meaningful data? When you do thousands of transactions per month, you can’t please everyone. This is true of every high volume seller.

I hate to bring up DSR’s, but look at Buy’s DSR’s. They are what, all like 4.8? They also have 28000 accumulated DSR counts. We all know how the DSR’s work. With a count that high, it would take thousands of 1’s or thousands of 5’s to make that 4.8 move. All I can ioffer is there appears to be a mismatch between the text feedback and the numerical DSR feedback.

@Sandi

Sadly, you must not have listened to Donahue’s statements, it’s the flea market he wants to get rid of. He has openly and publically stated as such.

I disagree.

#1, I “heard that”, but where is that printed? Point me to a documented quote. I also heard him say just the opposite, that the small seller is the foundation of the place. Was the quote in context, out of context, blown out of proportion by angry users? I don’t know. Frankly, I don’t care WHAT he says anymore. Over the past few months I’ve come to realize the man is to be ignored. Now, if I go any deeper in how I feel, I’m going to get edited again. All that matters to me is:

#2, as long as the stuff keeps selling, and the hit counts are reasonable, I have no reason to look to sell elsewhere. Those two things tell me the buyers are still there. when/if my metrics drop, then I’ll worry about it.

I respectfully disagree, ebay is no longer the first place, or second place, or even third place I look for anything.

I have no problem with any disagreement, however ebay is still the place I would go to first to look for anything odd. Sorry, but those other sites just don’t have those types items listed on them. I constantly check.

Patricia1On May 4, 2008 at 3:18 pm Said:

@ JJH

“Consider this though. Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, etc, all operate mail order operations. There is no consumer feedback on those operations that we can see like there is on eBay, so how can you compare that to any meaningful data?”

Yes, there certainly is feedback. I bought two items online at Walmart. One was a Black & Decker Scumbuster and the other a Hoover Vacuum. In both cases they wait a couple of weeks after you pick up your items and then send you a form you can give feedback on. This feedback, both good and bad is published under that particular item on the item’s own page. There is a list of feedbacks for each item. They ask how long you’ve had the product…they ask you to rate the product with stars (5 being best) and they allow you space to write about the item, service, etc.

JJHOn May 4, 2008 at 4:29 pm Said:

Patricia1, OK, I stand corrected if there is feedback. But, is it feedback that can be compared apples-to-apples with the feedback system ebay uses? You can’t compare metrics if two different types of systems are being used.

I see “product ratings” on sites like Best Buy, Circuit City, etc, when you look up something. These are opinion ratings. As you read through them you often find that more negative opinions are expressed rather than positive. This is because unsatisfied people are more motivated to write than satisfied. I wonder if the system you refer to isn’t the same.

One has to wonder if the feedback system is even relevant on ebay anymore. Just get rid of it and use the DSR values.

HOWEVER, this seller thinks that BUYERS should also have an anonymous DSR system they should be held accountable to as well. There are plenty of things I could say about my buyers as well, such as:

How quickly did they pay?
Did they reply to your communications?
Did they follow your post-sale instructions?

Usher LiebermanOn May 4, 2008 at 5:06 pm Said:

@Sandi

the lower price on Shotgun Bride is actually being sold by a 3rd party seller on Buy.com, it is not Buy’s inventory.

Formerly Known As MarikaBooksOn May 4, 2008 at 5:18 pm Said:

LOL. Out of all the discussion, questions, and angst here, Mr. Lieberman can only answer one question about Shotgun Bride, of all things.

Oh my, yes. They are really listening. And ignoring, for the most part. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

MechelleOn May 4, 2008 at 6:19 pm Said:

My main point was - why is it alright for their to be multiple accounts of items being sold that they did not have- under positive (quick refunds), neutral, and negatives. I’ll bet this is in the 3 digits if not more just in a month or less- I only went back a couple weeks.

I don’t think it matters at all the amount of volume they have - because they also have employees. Us low volume sellers do it our selves on top of everything else that life demands. We don’t just hand out a list of assignments to a bunch of employees and act as though it is more justifiable to have lesser service provided or selling products we don’t have.

I view it quite the opposite- they should have equal or better feedback.

If a small seller has 300 customers a month - do all the work their selves, and the other jobs they still have, actually have the item they sold or get an item they sold they didn’t have, refund the day the issue arises, have packages delivered within a week to a week and a half, do all the purchasing, packaging, communication, listing, revising and on and on- why can’t the large volume seller with the employees do just as well? I think they should be doing as well or better.

Anyway, if someone chooses to use the customer volume argument they must be very satisfied with eBay’s crappy service- and expect nothing more. After all they are a high volume seller of services

permacrisisOn May 4, 2008 at 6:34 pm Said:

Hey, wait a second. Buy dot com accepts Google payments.

We aren’t allowed to accept Google payments.

This is gonna get interesting.

MechelleOn May 4, 2008 at 6:39 pm Said:

Also, people are people- you can have 20 customers and have one that refuses to be pleased- 100, 500, 1000. It doesn’t matter it’s the luck of the draw on who gets slammed with a crappy buyer and who can afford to pay them off if that is even possible.

Sears, walmart…… are entirely irrelevant not only do they not have feedback they also do not sell within the eBay marketplace therefore are not accountable to the same expectations that people who do sell on eBay are held to- otherwise be suspended. Buy.com is selling on eBay (partnering with eBay which I am unsure of what that is even supposed to mean if not serious discounts for their presence on eBay)they should be held accountable just the same as we are and the items being sold that they don’t even have would not be ok for us especially at that frequency- so I don’t care what their volume is- what sears and walmart do- there are eBay policies that we are all expected to adhere to and there should not be any preferences given to a volume seller- period.

Also- clearly not only is Buy.com receiving discounts those discounts are being extended to buy.com third party vendors. Why are other eBay sellers paying more than buy.com and more than their third party vendors?

Oh, and apparently these third party vendors get to hide behind the feedback and DSR ratings that are accumulated through Buy.com’s account. How is that guaranteeing a positive buyer experience? There could be a handful of these third party vendors racking up those negatives and crappy DSR portions yet no one would know not to buy from those third party vendors. So, as is clear from the feedback there is no guarantee that the buyer will have a positive experience and because of the volume of feedback and DSR ratings that vendor will never be held accountable.

Usher LiebermanOn May 4, 2008 at 6:54 pm Said:

@Mechelle

This deal is for buy.com, to the best of my knowledge it does not extend to their 3rd party sellers. Buy.com is listing *their own* merchandise on eBay.

Usher LiebermanOn May 4, 2008 at 6:55 pm Said:

and just so you don’t think I’m ducking…I will answer as much as possible tonight. For now I am off to enjoy what remains of my weekend.

Patricia1On May 4, 2008 at 7:21 pm Said:

@ Michelle - Walmart does, indeed have feedback on their site. Proof:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2519232

If you scroll down the page you’ll see the feedback…star system and all! I think I explained this before.

MechelleOn May 4, 2008 at 7:25 pm Said:

@Usher Lieberman

This is what you said above

“the lower price on Shotgun Bride is actually being sold by a 3rd party seller on Buy.com, it is not Buy’s inventory.”

How is anything differentiated? Clearly this book is related to Buy.Com’s eBay store, so unless that third party seller had to pay eBay directly to have their items show up in our search - they are in fact benefiting from the discounted rate that eBay is giving to Buy.com. So, yes the third parties are receiving the discounted rate and are not held accountable to the same feedback and DSR standards that we are.

On top of that explain to me why Buy.com gets to list on our site for lesser fees to benefit from the traffic that eBay sellers have accumulated with all their hard work and money? It seems to me that Buy.com is benefiting from us sellers (as is eBay) yet were getting stuck with the bill- what’s your explanation for this assault?

AmberOn May 4, 2008 at 9:03 pm Said:

Usher, thank you for popping in. I’d just like to say that after all of the changes my business has absorbed, this particular decision has tipped the scale.

I am going to close my ebay store.

I’m a media seller (I guess that should be “I used to be a media seller.”). I’ve operated a tiny, but reliable romance bookstore here for over 5 years. My repeat customers are 40-50% of my business every month. People who shop on ebay because they like buying from me. By turning the site over to the big retailers, you’ve undercut that person to person loyalty that created this site and that makes eBay unique.

I’m wiping the tears from my cheeks as I contemplate the end of my selling career here. I don’t understand the logic of destroying what is wonderful about this site in favor of a quick buck. People don’t buy here to have a retail experience. Most buy because there really is a person behind the computer screen, not some automated software.

It won’t make any difference to you or other eBay execs, but you’ve lost me and will gradually lose my customers as well. I won’t buy on the site and will move my inventory elsewhere. Clearly, I’m no longer needed or wanted here.

Usher LiebermanOn May 4, 2008 at 9:38 pm Said:

@Mechelle - Not really sure how you drew your conclusions about buy’s eBay store and their 3rd parties. Buy’s inventory is on eBay, not their 3rd party sellers.

@Amber - I am sorry to see you go.

Patricia1On May 4, 2008 at 10:00 pm Said:

@ Amber - open a small website, stock it with your romance books…then go thru your receipts and invite those repeat customers ;-) In the long run I bet you come out ahead.

Patricia1On May 4, 2008 at 10:03 pm Said:

@ Mechelle -

“Sears, walmart…… are entirely irrelevant not only do they not have feedback.”

Don’t know where my last post went, but go to walmart dot com and put Hoover Vacuum in search - pick out any model then scroll to down that model’s page - you will see feedback from customers who bought - AND they have a star rating system. Who knows…perhaps this is where ebay got the idea of DSR’s - we all know it wasn’t an original idea on their part :-)

MechelleOn May 5, 2008 at 1:02 am Said:

Okay- I see what you meant- so Sandi demonstrated that we can buy direct through Buy.com completely bypassing eBay entirely- not even go through eBay to get to Buy.com in some odd way and buy the book including shipping cheaper on Buy.com than on eBay.

And your point about the book was yes we can buy it cheaper on the Buy.com site from one of their third party dealers.

Thanks for the tip Sandi and thanks Usher Lieberman for the confirmation that we can absolutely get a better deal on Buy.com than we can on Buy’s eBay store.

Amber I am so sorry that you are having to experience such pain. I know what it feels like to have it slap you that all you have put into something is just gone. As soon as eBay made their announcement in January I knew I could no longer be here- not because of feedback (I have superb feedback) not because of DSRs (they are already anonymous so should not change) not the fee changes (I’m probably the only seller who did get a decrease)- all the things that hit the nerves of so many (though I feel they are wrong and can very easily damage any of us giving the right nut job) meant nothing to me I was floored that eBay just told the world that I was a crooked piece of trash that has to extort people into leaving me positive feedback, that I rip people off through shipping, that I don’t know how to provide a good buying experience for my own customers. Due to all my failings and corrupted character eBay had to step in on behalf of my customers to protect them from me.

I just can’t live my life participating in a relationship with anyone or anything that thinks of me and portrays me in a such a way to the public. We all have to have some self respect - there has to be a point in which we say ok that was over the top out of line and won’t be tolerated- and for me eBay hit it.

It wasn’t and isn’t a singular emotion for me - for a few weeks every time I thought about closing my store I would just start crying. I have put so much time and emotion into my store and my customers the thought of walking away was excruciating. I have only been doing this for 15 months, yet it seems that the rest of the world stopped when I started. Due to needing to get inventory counted, pictures taken and edited, and listings up while trying to figure out the nightmare of setting up my store I had moved myself downstairs just until I got those things set up- couple weeks should do it I thought.

Well I have lived downstairs for 15 months, and I don’t mean I spend my days working down here - I mean I live down here. My family lives upstairs and I live down here, I only leave to go to my sons’ various events , when we went camping last summer for a week I drove to my mom’s house an hour away from camp everyday and spent the entire day into the night working on the endless list of tasks involved with selling on eBay, I don’t watch TV. I do nothing but my eBay store- absolutely nothing until lately - these discussion boards have become my breaks.

With all that I have set aside and the days I’ve gone without sleep- yes days straight - because I am answering questions from international buyers, or designing new parts for my store, taking pictures, updating inventory, listings, revising, purchasing, packaging……. I have- in a generous estimate- averaged 4 hours of sleep a night for 15 months. My husband caring about me has a few occasions let me sleep into the afternoon on Saturdays- well my words were not thank you , because I just missed a shipping day. I understand he must be tired of looking at his wife and her new pasty white skin and sunken black eyes, but shipping days must be used and if that means short sleep times than that’s what it means- I must ship!

With all I had put into this - everything I have in me- to read the trashing that was done to me and every other seller on eBay in sweeping fashion I just crumbled- I was outraged that they would dare say that I am a fraud, that I am a thief, that I am out to harm my customers. How could someone, anyone, anything assign such terrible traits to me - to all of the eBay selling community- without even knowing who we are, what we do, or how well we do it? EBay’s actions and words are unforgivable assaults. I have been working on my new store designing it and making sure everything is just right so that my customers will know they can count on me being in that one place from then on and not worry about if they’ll need to set their favorites to another site again. If not for my regular customers I would have closed my store and just worked on my new store, but they are frequent shoppers and I’m their first stop in my category on eBay and for a couple the only stop on eBay at all, so I didn’t want to just flip the off button on them, but they know we’re moving and the only thing they have to say about it “is let me know where we’re moving to“.

I am sure glad I didn’t have 5 years- 10 years, or even a month more than my own time put into selling on eBay, because it is so painful just the 15 months I wouldn’t want to know how the betrayal feels after 5 or 10 years.

The problem with eBay- they don’t see that we are people - they don’t see us at all

CAMOn May 5, 2008 at 2:12 am Said:

This move seems to be very short-sighted. Last year, Meg Whitman talked about the “core” vs. “store” and bringing back the magic. How much “magic” is a site cluttered with new cra…er..stuff I can get cheaper at my local mall, target or walmart?

In my mind, bringing a more retail experience from an eBay perspective means.. easier faster one click checkout, accurate relevent search and/or even standardized shipping and payment methods (ie..paypal only). As much as sellers (me included), kick and yell about those, I assume they are coming - to enhance the buyer experience.

I don’t, however, consider, giving special deals so someone can list 300,000+ retail items as fixed price (in “core”), neither fair to “core sellers” who struggle to pay for core listings and turn a profit, nor even a good business long term practice. If a business cannot affort inerstion fees and FVF it means their items are not selling at a rate that can guarantee profit, and any “deal” that eBay gives them provides an unfair advantage over like sellers who have built eBay with their blood sweat and tears.

BUT, the biggest slam my head against the wall in frustration wondering if you can see the forest through the trees is customer retention. Why is Buy.com selling on this inefficient channel when they have their own web footprint? Well..yes..CUSTOMER ACQUISITION. How short-sighted is it to give away your customers (ebay buyers) to Buy.com and expect them to buy from eBay next time..when they can just hop on over to Buy.com website and pick it up in 1/10 the searching time (of course, Buy.com will use this as a customer acquisition tool and when no longer a good channel will be off eBay). What do you thing, Buy.com is NOT going to market to these customers directly?? Hello???

Congratulations..You’ve just made eBay a giant Billboard for large retail companies to finally get their hands on eBays buyers, opening up that cookie jar, which they have envied and lusted after for years. Giving away the golden goose for a quick payday.

Good Luck with that..

CAM

JJHOn May 5, 2008 at 6:05 am Said:

To Mr. Leiberman,

Thank you for providing a link to the “flea market” quote. It does appear to have been twisted out of context by many people to suit their own feelings.

Except, in the article you referred me to, this quote, by the author took me by surprise too: “[of the many changes] These have included new ways of searching for items, to downplay the flea market feel.”

OK, so what’s WRONG with the “flea market feel”?

What makes something “look or feel like a flea market.”? Why must this change?

Also, regarding the blog, I would have never seen your reply had I not scrolled back looking for something. Richard: I really do not like that new posts can all of a sudden appear in the middle of the blog comments where many may never see them. I think it is critical to have ALL new comments appear at the end, and refer back to previous comments.

Can I make a suggestion? Each topic entry should have a NUMBER, which is also a link, so that it can be quickly referred back to.

I’d also REALLY like to have a PREVIEW ability so out message can be checked for correct format, typos, spelling, and the like, before submitting.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn May 5, 2008 at 6:27 am Said:

Richard,

“It’s my assertion that Pierre was talking about the conditions and approach to the Marketplace at the company’s founding.”

If it was really true, that Pierre was referring to what he HAD meant by “a level playing field”, then why did you write in your blog: “Pierre addressing some of the recent changes in the Marketplace. He also addresses what he MEANS by “a level playing field” and how it RELATES to the eBay experience… “?

In both words “MEANS” and “RELATES” you used the PRESENT tense. Why would you have done that unless you felt that he was referring to the PRESENT meaning of “a level playing field” as it relates, right now, to the current eBay experience?

Not to mention the fact that Pierre clearly states in the interview:

“I never meant that everyone, regardless of the quality of the service they provided, regardless of their experience on the site, regardless of their feedback rating, everyone should be treated exactly the same way. That wouldn’t make any sense. What I meant by level playing field was that everyone should be given equal opportunity and if you can use that opportunity, different people, individuals use their opportunities differently. And if you can use that opportunity differently and advance more and provide better service to customers, if you’re a seller, and so forth, then you should be rewarded for that. And I think that is entire consistent with the level playing field.”

What Pierre is really referring to, in the above quote, are the special privileges, discounts, and search rankings awarded to Power Sellers over other everyday sellers. He believes that eBay allows everyone the opportunity to become a Power Seller, if they wish, and should a seller achieve that status, then they should be rewarded with special privileges and deals above other sellers. This is basically a defense for the recent Power Seller discounts and PayPal protections for Power Sellers only.

More over, if you wanted to apply this to the idea of outside retailers, then the current deal with Buy.com would be in violation of this. Sellers, no matter their size or service level, are not being given the same OPPORTUNITY as Buy.com to have their listings ever show up in the same manner. Nor are they being provided the OPPORTUNITY to get the same pricing deal as Buy.com.

Remember, Pierre stated that they should always go back to their core principles. He never said that it was okay to change or eliminate them - just re-interpret them in accordance to the current online marketplace. So please explain who one can possibly reinterrpret the “level playing field” priciple in a way which shows the current Buy.com deal is in agreement with?

“The thing I was concerned about, with level playing field, is that I didn’t want to have sort of artificial barriers placed on newcomers, and to have people, by virtue of their stature outside of the eBay community, somehow be treated better, [Donahoe says, "Right"] you know special deals behind the scenes because their a big retailor and we want them to come on to eBay, and that kind of stuff. That would’ve been, THAT’S (present tense again) a disaster. That’s what I meant by a level playing field. [Donahoe comments, "Right".]

Note how Pierre changed his wording of “would’ve been” to “that’s a disaster”? Clearly he corrected himself to demonstrate that he feels such an idea would always be a bad idea on eBay. He did not mean past tense.

Sorry Richard, but you’re belief that Pierre was only reffering to the past, as opposed to the present, is clearly wrong. This is shown in both what you wrote and what Pierre stated. Honestly, it appears now that you are simply backtracking, not unlike the idea that “no plans” simply means “no time frame”.

As I have stated before, I understand your need and desire to defend your employer, it is only natural. However if you expect for people to take what you write seriously, then you really need to becareful of what you write in the future, especially if you plan to change it on a whim, depending upon what new change eBay decides to role out.

I think what is really hurting your creditability is that you wrote before, present tense, and now you are backtracking by saying it was refering to the past.