The F-word…

dimesOn 05.02.2008 at 12:27 pm Said:

From what I’ve been reading, sellers are already setting up informational sites on which the eBay ID’s of ‘bad buyers’ can be submitted and referenced by other sellers. Or anyone with access to the internet.

eBay is effectively removing any control it has over the posting of negative feedback. If the ‘bad bidder’ sites gain traction with sellers - or consumers in general - it won’t do much to improve the eBay ‘buyer experience’ for anyone whose eBay ID gets placed in a Hall of Shame for public viewing.

eBay would have been better off trying to come up with a way to improve the feedback system internally rather than sending its dirty laundry out to be washed in public.

Kevin_TOn 05.02.2008 at 1:04 pm Said:

@ Sandi (and Richard),
Please re-read what I quoted.

A week or two ago ebaydeveloper.typepad.com site announced “We will base the Positive Feedback Percentage on the past 12 months of activity (and include neutral Feedback in the calculation)”

This is not a 30 day or 45 day reading, this IS POSITIVE FEEDBACK PERCENTAGE calculated over 12 months. It has been removed from the Ebay developer website so it MAY have been changed again.

Since this blog entry is based on Tamebay blog, it was discussed here:
http://www.tamebay.com/2008/04/neutral-feedback-to-be-counted-as-negative.html
“Neutral feedback to be counted as negative”

The actual ebaydeveloper.typepad.com is quoted here:
http://www.thehowcafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8449

I do still want to know whether that proposal is part of the May feedback changes, and if so, I would like Richard to ask Brian Burke WHY?

Kevin

AmberOn 05.02.2008 at 1:08 pm Said:

Eric has it right. The biggest change here, besides the whole negative/neutral feedback for buyers is the complete transformation of neutrals.

Yes, they’ve been using them in the SNP calculations, but now they’ll be weighted as equal to a negative in every way but one. The ONLY difference between a neutral and a negative is that it does not add to or subtract from the feedback SCORE.

Your 12 month feedback percentage IS affected. So many people with 100% and a few neutrals can expect to see that % drop. The 12 month % is the number of positive feedback divided by the number of positive, negative and neutrals.

So…if you have 100 feedbacks received in the last 12 months:
98 positives
2 neutrals
0 negatives

Your fb % is 98% Under the old system: 100%

Quite a drop!

AmberOn 05.02.2008 at 1:16 pm Said:

1. What is your policy for negs?

I only leave negs for NPBs, as I’ve never had a problem with any transactions that resulted in receiving a neg.

2. Have you stopped leaving them already?

I haven’t had a reason to leave one in a few months.

3. Are you one of the sellers who has got a neg saved up to leave at the last minute?

Nope. I’m too busy taking care of my customers to worry about leaving negatives.

4. If you’ve just left your last neg (or are about to) tell us why you left it and what you’ll miss about leaving negs in the future.

My last negative was during Christmas. It was for an NPB that cussed me out in an email after I filed a UID. After some investigating, it turned out to be an underage bidder. I reported her, but no action was ever taken and she is still on the site with a -2 fb rating. I’m not the only one victimized by her.

I’ll miss being able to warn other sellers about NPBs and nutcases. Ebay expanded our BBLs, but took away our biggest tool for warning other sellers. Now we can only block problem bidders after personally experiencing their nastiness.

I’ve only left 6 negatives in 5 years–all for NPBs. Ebay’s chart of 8x re: retaliatory negatives is skewed and we all know it. Just because a fb is left last, does not make it retaliatory. And I notice an absence of data on the number of retaliatory negs left by NPBs who knew to respond to the UIDs.

The bottom line is that I don’t trust Ebay to remove bad buyers from the site. The situation I described above is a classic example of ebay’s response. It’s non-existant.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 05.02.2008 at 1:56 pm Said:

1.) I would’ve only left a Neg FB for a buyer who performed a charge back after receiving the item, or left an undeserved negative for me, such as “I wouldn’t falsify a customs form”, “I wouldn’t renegotiate the stated shipping cost”, or “I wouldn’t take back a new item after the buyer used it”.

I would’ve only left a neg for a non-paying bidder so long as they didn’t respond to the dispute. I did have one bidder who did not pay, but did respond to the unpaid item dispute. I did not leave the bidder a neg because I feared the buyer would leave a retaliatory neg. I was not going to damage my selling reputation to neg a non-paying bidder, who would most likely just create another id when that one acquired too many. As a seller, I can not build a new id as easily as a buyer can.

1a.) My normally policy for leaving feedback was only after the buyer left it for me. I wanted to make sure that everything was fine with the entire transaction, so that I could leave accurate feedback. If a buyer tried to perform a scam or charge back, then I wanted to reserve the right to leave them a neg for their fraudulent behavior.

If at least 15 to 20 days went buy, after delivery confirmation showed as delivered, then I went ahead and left positive, even if they hadn’t left it for me.

2.) I stopped selling on eBay back in Feb. 2008, so I set my account to leave positive feedback automatically for any buyer who left it after Feb 30th.

3.) I do not have a neg saved up. Now that I am no longer selling on eBay, I went ahead and left positive feedback for any of my buyers who have not left it for me.

4.) As I stated earlier, I have never left an neg, nor have I ever received one. Although one non-paying bidder deserved the neg, I did not leave it as I feared a retaliatory neg from the buyer.

However, I am still monitoring the eBay forums to see if sellers start posting that they are receiving unfair negative and neutral feedback from buyers. I know that some sellers did receive unfair feedback, when the changes were first announced, because buyers were under the false impression that the changes were already in effect. So it’ll be interesting to see the actual effects when the policy change takes place come mid May.

oakteakOn 05.02.2008 at 3:58 pm Said:

Does anyone else feel that eBay is almost entirely focused on feedback to the detriment of all else?

The main focus should be on making sales, improving the site to make sales easier, actual eBay customer service for sellers and buyers with real people that works, and helping sellers close the sales the best way they can.

How did this getting lost in all of the police state tactics?

Why are there so many impediments in the way and hoops to jump through before one can close a sale, and so many nasty things happening after the sale has been closed for so many?

eBay has become a warden.

It is beyond my comprehension how this could get so turned around in such a sick manner.

oakteakOn 05.02.2008 at 3:59 pm Said:

getting=get

MistyOn 05.02.2008 at 4:29 pm Said:

@OakTeak
Because they believe our buyers are theirs there for that is who they are courting until their retail comes online then they will have no use for us sellers believing our buyers will remain for their retail junk or so that is my opinion of what’s happening.

Patricia1On 05.02.2008 at 4:32 pm Said:

misty - I would have to agree because right now there is no love lost between ebay and the sellers and they aren’t budging so that shows they really don’t care if sellers leave.

MistyOn 05.02.2008 at 4:38 pm Said:

Patricia… Exactly, sort of explains why they are also trying to cause friction between buyers and sellers don’t you think?

Patricia1On 05.02.2008 at 5:03 pm Said:

Yes, you could be on to something there….but they really would be doing themselves damage because sellers are also the buyers they covet so much

SandiOn 05.02.2008 at 5:19 pm Said:

@Kevin:

Ah, we are talking apples and oranges, I do know that in May, the feedback score/percentage will be based on the previous 12 months - although all feedback will be part of the history - I think that’s probably what you read. They will also be removing any negatives given by no longer registered members.

But the feedback score is meaningless - it no longer serves any purpose. Even power seller status is moving to DSR ratings, not feedback score. 4.5 across the board is the magically number I think.

go to August 13th on the link below - that’s the first time ebay management stated neutrals were now the new ebay negative:

http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/archive.shtml

Justin defines neutral’s as considered part of the seller rating as far as non-performance. At that time it was a 90 day window (I was wrong, I thought it was a 45 day window).

ebay finally kind of defined what all the restrictions were about - 4 months AFTER they started restricting sellers (see trust & safety discussion boards may-july to see how many sellers got hit and the replies given by ebay staff)

I have never once read anywhere from ebay management a 12 month as it relates to the various punishments.

JJHOn 05.02.2008 at 5:45 pm Said:

…As in “Feedback” (what were you thinking?)

Someone has to say it.

Well Richard, I was thinking exactly what your joke was meant to imply, and how that word appears to be how management is treating the sellers. Large and small. No offense to you, but I’m sure everyone who regularly posts here would agree with me.

I hope you don’t feel you have to pull this reply. You did ask.

KDOn 05.03.2008 at 8:50 am Said:

All sellers have a problem leaving negative feedback unless pushed to the limit and even then they leave it rarely. That shows they do not like to leave negative feedback, Mr. Donohoe.

So your reason to take their leverage to defend themselves away from them doesn’t stand up.
Sellers absolutely need a fair and balanced feedback system. The unfair feedback system only throws it out of balance, therefore it isn’t a fair system at all.

I think if there were an actual fact check or survey, statistics would show a minor number of sellers abused the feedback system.

Most sellers were serious about there business and took feedback very seriously. They worked hard for years to build up excellent track records.
Feedback records have now been messed with as well.

With all problems combined, I ask you, Mr. Donohoe, why go through such a farce that you knew would create a huge and unpleasant reaction? It is obvious that every change is not justified and the explanations given only serve to provoke a seller response and not one question is being truthfully answered.

It angers me to see the abuse. Donohoe, you ought to just come out and operate in the open. Why all the aggression and then the defense as if we are the enemy, as if WE did something to you?

The only enemy around here is someone that is very secretive and acts like he has something to hide. This is ridiculous and must be stopped. Just tell them Donohoe, you have no intention of having them around! Everything you unilaterally decided to change is working for you to get the whole community in an uproar.

Stop making these people ask questions you have no intention of answering. Stop using their time. They are trying to understand all these things you dumped on them all, all at once. Come out and tell them you intend to be relentless in your quest to change eBay and they are in for a lot more provoking pressure as each new change is rolled out. Tell them, they’re not part of the plan, they are like old furniture to you, just collecting dust and taking space.
What do you call “sacred cows”? Sounds like you think it’s really hard to get rid of them before your plans fail. I think you under estimate people’s intelligence. You terrorized these sellers. They are traumatized by your actions. Surely you didn’t think they’d just all go away just like that. You needed this vocal “noise”. Wow, just use them for every last detail. And let them know if one change doesn’t work then the next one will, and on and on for 3 years until they are all gone.

Really, do the decent thing and give it up. Only 25% of businesses can change and you picked one that has a very large resistance. If you needed to use your skills to change a company, wouldn’t it have been more logical/reasonable to find a more normal company to change?

TheBrewsNewsOn 05.03.2008 at 10:13 am Said:

Richard, in an effort to show support for the work you are putting into this blog — I have some comments relevant to this specific topic of Feedback and DSRs. How about asking some serious questions of Mr. Burke? I have LOTS of unanswered questions but I will limit myself to just three main ones:

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1. When satisfied buyers attempt to leave DSR ratings of all 5’s they are prompted with the following message:

“Are you sure? Remember, the ratings left by you are anonymous and can’t be seen by the seller.”

>>QUESTION: Why does eBay feel they need to doubt the satisfied buyer’s desire to leave 5-star DSR ratings?

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2. Since eBay has made such a point that DSRs are anonymous, what faith do we as sellers have that eBay is accurately reporting to us (and to the public who is viewing our reputation) the ratings that our buyers are actually leaving? Putting aside the fact that the DSRs are poorly worded and that only one DSR rating (the shipping cost) is actually used to determine discounts and Best Match placement… eBay’s reporting of sellers’ DSRs is only one aggregate number. Even if I have trust in eBay to accurately report the “truth” in aggregate, what real VALUE is it to me as a seller?

>>>QUESTION: While still protecting individual buyers’ anonymity, why not provide to me some DSR information of value?

For example, what is my DSR rating from international customers versus domestic buyers for each DSR?

For example, what is my DSR rating for a certain category of products versus another category of products I sell? Already, I can see which of my categories are rated the highest in terms of dollar sales. Why not let me know which customers of which products I sell are rating me particularly well regarding shipping and which ones are rating me poorly. That way if there is a particular item or category of items where customers perceive that I am overcharging on shipping then I can address that.

For example, if my DSR rating for shipping cost is 4.6 in aggregate, how many customers gave me a 5 and how many gave me a 1?

Use the seller dashboard to give me some detail so that I can see exactly how I can improve my buyers’ level of satisfaction.

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3. Why is my blocked bidder list no longer alphabetized and why are some seller’s blocked bidder lists disappearing altogether?

And how does eBay plan to ensure that blocked bidders cannot simply create a new bidder ID to get around the block? Please do not attempt to describe to me any “current” systems in place because there are none that work. I have blocked bidders who have been able to create IDs multiple times in an attempt to continue to buy from me. Reporting an “unwelcome bidder”, even if I could keep track of all unwelcome bidders, is not acted upon by eBay. Call me silly but I do not want to do business with someone again who has chargedback and kept the product, who has attempted to extort money from me in terms of a partial refund, or who has threatened negative feedback unless I meet some outrageous demand after the fact.

>>>How can I truly block an eBay bidder given that anyone can create a new disposable eBay ID at any time to circumvent my blocked bidder list?

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