The F-word…

implog / May 1st, 2008 at 5:00 pm

Please ask Mr. Burke to explain in terms the average eBay user can understand, how the 2004 and 2007 Ratio of Retaliatory feedback numbers shown in the slide above was determined.

Ask him how eBay defines and ascertains that a negative feedback is retaliatory as opposed to justified.

Ebay has always maintained that retaliatory feedback was an unfortunate “battle scar” and took no action nor investigated the negative feedback complaint to see if it was indeed. It intrigues me that now Ebay can use comparative statistics on something they’ve ignored.

Speaking of feedback, did Ms. Norrington get back to you yet on whether non-paying bidders can leave a neg for sellers who have filed an Unpaid Item Dispute against them? Now THAT would be a clear and easily measurable case of retaliatory feedback.

Cheers!

TheBrewsNews / May 1st, 2008 at 6:36 pm

Personally, I am not really upset at the idea of not being able to leave negative feedback for an eBay buyer. I am, however, upset by the fact that eBay will be taking away my one and only “early detection” tool. I will no longer be able to tell which eBay buyers are likely to be “good” and which ones are likely to be “bad”. And my ability to be able to warn other sellers about the eBay buyers who chargeback but keep their product, among other things, will be gone.

It’s like going to the grocery store and having to choose an apple to eat — from experience I know that those apples with lots of brown bruised spots are more likely not to taste good. So I would avoid the bad apples whenever possible.

The point that I have made over and over and over again is that I don’t every have to worry about what an Amazon buyer’s feedback looks like. I NEVER worry about an Amazon buyer because ALL of the apples in the Amazon bushel are good ones. Amazon does the work of removing the brown bruised apples before they present the bushel to me.

Richard, you ask four questions about feedback but the answers are all irrelevant. eBay will not reconsider its upcoming policy change so “resistance is futile”. Discussing the upcoming feedback changes is only pouring salt into an open wound. Also, the specific questions asked border on insulting. How can we have a serious discussion about the negative feedback we are “saving up to leave”? Any serious eBay seller is too busy providing good customer service and those of us who depend on mail-order sales to pay our mortgage are much more concerned about the monetary implications of the upcoming changes rather than our ability to emotionally cripple a buyer with that pent-up negative feedback we have been “saving up”.

I am not emotionally “passionate” about my upcoming inability to leave negative feedback for an eBay buyer. I am, however, seriously passionate about the money I have to earn to support my family. When eBay continues to create policy changes that provide a safehaven for bruised and rotten apples then they are reducing the amount of money I can actually take home after a hard day’s work on eBay — after paying eBay fees, Paypal fees and periodically giving away free product through unprotected PayPal chargebacks there simply isn’t much left over at the end of the day.

I feel like someone who has lived in the same house for 10 years and who has been watching my neighborhood decay. We used to have a wonderful neighborhood, complete with a Neighborhood Watch group, and it’s sad to look at pictures of how things “used to be”. Our family is slowing packing up all our belongings as we check out the good schools in other neighborhoods to decide where we will move to and eventually end up settling in. We don’t want to move but the neighborhood we live in is becoming unsightly (yards not being mowed, parties all night with broken beer bottles thrown in our yard, very noisy neighbors, etc) and the schools in the neighborhood aren’t meeting the needs of our children. The house we live in is no longer one I want to call home. Despite all the problems, I was really reluctant to leave because even though the neighborhood is in decline there has been some, but not too much, crime thus far. But the crime has been steadily increasing. And we recently received notification in the mail at the end of January telling us that beginning May 19th the police will no longer be patrolling our neighborhood. They tell us that all residents of our city are good and that if the police came to arrest anyone caught robbing our homes and that crime were reported in the newspaper then it might send a bad message to others who might want to relocate here. Now while I can’t pick up my family and move all our belongings overnight, the minute I received that notice I have been researching other neighborhoods and have found some good ones where I wouldn’t mind setting up a new home. I know that moving is time-consuming and expensive and there is some apprehension involved but the future has never looked better. I don’t even mind, as much, pulling into the driveway where I currently reside because I know that it is only temporary.

I know it will take me a little while to get settled comfortably into the new place but from what I understand I won’t be too homesick… several of my current neighbors are actually moving out of the old neighborhood, too, and will be relocating in the same new neighborhood where I am going.

The only “F” word I want to spend time discussing is the “Future”.

Patricia1 / May 1st, 2008 at 8:13 pm

Ebay management says they’re listening but they don’t want to hear anything other than what they want to do – so what’s the point in discussing it? I think 90 percent of sellers do not like the feedback change and the stringent DSR’s – does it matter – no! Are they listening – NO! So, disillusioned sellers will get burned and leave – same thing that ebay says is what happens to buyers who get negatives – they get hurt and leave. These new policies are a no-win situation but ebay will have to get hurt by them before they’d consider changing course. One thing I wish they would think about….sellers will NOT simply accept this and life will go on as usual. The majority of them are out beating the bushes for new venues and sooner or later they’ll get their wish.

Misty / May 1st, 2008 at 9:21 pm

If eBay plans to keep the level playing field they talk about then proposed changes will have to be reconsidered and that includes a level feedback system which is why I said what I did above, the punishments lined up to coincide with the DSR and feedback are an insult to say the very least and gives no incentive which is I believe the opposite of what eBay is claiming to try to achieve… remove the problem sellers and buyers those that commit fraud, scams, extortion, fakes etc.. settle the issue of NPB and NPS once and for all as suggested above… most negative feedback is a direct result of these problems.
I honestly believe most good sellers are not in waiting to give negative feedback. As TheBrewsNews mentioned above good sellers want this security as a last resort to warn other sellers and it leaves a trail exposing these bad members. why would eBay want to take this security away leaving the site vulnerable?
If they want to do away with the feedback for sellers then do away with it for buyers as well and remove the problem members to make it a safe and secure site to do business on.

Patricia1 / May 1st, 2008 at 10:57 pm

@ misty – most definitely – sellers are going to feel like the bottom dropped out when they try to sell after this new policy goes into effect. Its a double whammy – 1) they have no protection against that nutcase buyer who comes along every once in awhile…just one of those can get a seller punished needlessly, and 2) when I get a new buyer the first thing I do is look up his feedback and the feedback he’s left others…gives me a darned good indication of whether or not he’s a good buyer. After this goes into effect, sellers will be flying blind…and guess what? The first negative some sellers get is going to hurt them so much they’ll leave ebay and never buy or sell there again. So….what’s the benefit in taking away a seller’s right to give a negative…..NONE! You lose a buyer or you lose a buyer/seller. Either way, you lose!

Cliff Aliperti / May 1st, 2008 at 11:32 pm

1. What is your policy for negs?
After shipment before buyer receives goods. I don’t do it immediately upon payment (unless requested) because it just seems the natural flow through eBay Selling Manager to leave after shipment. I feel the buyer has done his/her part after paying for the item.

2. Have you stopped leaving them already?
Yes, but only because I haven’t had a non-paying customer recently. I only leave for non-payment and only then after filing NPB. If they pay upon that notice they still get a positive, only a neg if they don’t respond and I have to relist. The way I handled the process they wound up with 4-6 weeks to pay me depending upon their past feedback record.

3. Are you one of the sellers who has got a neg saved up to leave at the last minute?
No.

4. If you’ve just left your last neg (or are about to) tell us why you left it and what you’ll miss about leaving negs in the future.
N/A

I’d say I lean about 80-90% towards not caring about this policy change. The small part of me that doesn’t like losing the ability to leave negative feedback for buyers is because:

A)eBay & Feedback have always been more or less synonymous to me. I feel it takes away part of eBay’s identity;

B)When a buyer doesn’t pay right away their negative feedback can be a valuable guide as to how to pursue payment and whether or not I should actually expect payment. Without that guide I’m left thinking there’s a good chance that if they don’t pay right away they won’t pay at all. I’ve been especially vigilant with follow-up invoices to buyers with under 100 feedback who haven’t paid right away. It makes me uncomfortable because I feel like I’m jumping on potentially good customers quick now, but on the other hand I need to know I’m going to get paid.

C) As a buyer, I’ve found the seller’s loss of the ability to neg me a deterrent towards leaving feedback for them at all. Without the policy even in effect, since it’s announcement, I’ve noticed I’ve become very lazy about leaving feedback for sellers. It just doesn’t seem to have any value anymore from a buyer’s perspective. By removing the stick for sellers eBay has taken away the carrot for buyers–why bother leaving feedback?

Even with all of that, I still lean very hard towards thinking it won’t matter in the grand scheme.

I get much more upset about DSR’s.

Sandi / May 2nd, 2008 at 1:12 am

@Richard:

1. What is your policy for negs?

I have left several, all but 2 for non-paying buyers. 1 was for a buyer who did a fraudulent chargeback.

The other was what ebay would on the surface see as “retaliatory”.

Shipping 300.00 painting, buyer left negative 4 days after delivery confirmation showed it was delivered stating item arrived damaged and useless.

I emailed and said, I am so sorry, it was insured, may I schedule pickup by shipper. Buyer said no, just refund her.

I called and said I am so sorry; this is the first time out of hundreds this has happened. Can buyer take a photo so I can see damage & I will refund in full? Buyer said no, too much work, just refund her.

I call and ask if I can send her everything she needs to ship back to me, box, prepaid shipping label, etc. Buyer says no, and to stop calling her, she just wants a full refund (I have been apologetic and very nice every contact – I sincerely wanted to make it right for her.

I wait 7 days and cool off, leave buyer a negative stating she refused to work with me on resolving issue so I could refund.

Sorry ebay, that woman was impossible – I was fully ready to refund her with just a photo. I don’t know what else I could have done other than simply refunding her based on no evidence of damage – not doing that – ebay can keep her, I will happily leave if those are the terms sellers are expected to operate under.

2. Have you stopped leaving them already?

I stopped selling completely in Feb 2008

3. Are you one of the sellers who have got a neg saved up to leave at the last minute?

No, I left them after I closed UPI disputes, or after I was robbed (oh, that buyer left me a retaliatory neg after I left her hers – it works both ways).

Always professional, e.g. EOA 00/00, file unpaid dispute 00/00, closed fees refunded 00/00 – no payment/communication.

Or: EOA 00/00 Buyer filed chargeback 00/00, kept painting.

I always understood feedback I left reflected on me as much as the other party.

4. If you’ve just left your last neg (or are about to) tell us why you left it and what you’ll miss about leaving negs in the future.

My last neg was in Dec 2007 for a non-paying/no communication buyer. They bid/won and then I never heard from them again.

If I was still willing to sell on ebay, I would regret losing the ability to let other sellers know who a problematic buyer is. Where is the “community”?

Richard, you are new, my biggest complaint on the feedback issue is the non-paying bidder. You know the one who if they mention item not as described, etc ebay says their negatives will stay.

Reality, non-paying bidders are a huge profit center for ebay – they will not admit it – but the facts support this.

Ebay will admit to 6% of all transactions not getting paid for – they acknowledge that number is based on UPI disputes. Not every seller goes through the UPI, some because they do not know it exists, and others do not want inventory to linger unsellable for 2 weeks.

The power seller organization conservatively estimates the actual figure is closer to 10 percent of all ebay transactions never get paid for.

Let’s use a 10.00 item as the example. Let’s use 15 million as the number of transactions daily (it’s close to what powersellersunite state as the listing number of ebay).

15 million, ebay claims a little over 50% sell through rate, let’s be conservative and say 50%. So we have sold 7.5 million – since FVF fees vary for auction and store (buy now higher sell through rate according to ebay). Let’s use 10% as the FVF.

Let’s say seller did not buy any extras while listing other than gallery image (which granted is “free” now). So about a dollar to list, a dollar in FVF. Ebay (not counting paypal) gets 2.00 of the 10.00 – seller is charged instantly when listing ends.

So ebay has made 15 million on those 7.5 million listings – but 10% of the buyers do not pay. That’s 750,000 items that are really not sold, let ebay has charged sellers as if they have.

4% never report to ebay, sellers will probably relist – ebay gets to charge seller again. Ebay gets to pocket 187500×2 right off the bat, and gets to double that if the seller relists and it sells the second time.

Now the other 6%, the seller has to wait 8 days to file an UPI, then has to give the buyer another week to pay – so 2 weeks before he can get issued a credit for the FVF fees only. Ebay says they will refund the second listing fee IF the item sells – but we have a 50% sell through rate – so ebay knows they will only have to do that at most 50% of the time.

Depending on when it all happens during the month, ebay has collected the monies from the seller and gets an interest free loan during the duration – and try getting an actual “refund” from ebay – mission impossible. At most you get a “credit” that will sit there forever unless you list with ebay.

I got charged 3.10 in Feb on my art selling ID – I have not listed in a year. I contacted ebay, got no where, I tried to file a dispute with paypal and was told I can not file a dispute against ebay for charges on my paypal account. That’s a nice little deal for ebay, but totally crappy for the customer.

It is estimated ebay makes 100 million from non-paying buyers. So it is clear they have no interest in actually addressing the issue. The feedback changes simply enhance their position with this lucrative profit center.

Now to add insult to injury, come May 19th, the seller will not be able to leave that non-paying bidder a negative feedback. BUT the real insult is ebay has no set 3 strikes and you are out policy regarding non-paying buyers. It’s subjective, vague and varies. There is NO TRANSPARENCY on what exactly eBay’s actual policy is.

Excuse, call me dense, but explain how THAT is a fair playing field?

And please ask my previous posted questions regarding specifics on what systems ebay has put into place to protect sellers when feedback changes occur. We do not need to hear the same thing over and over, e.g. retaliatory feedbacks have risen, etc. We need concrete, detailed information.

Thank you

Kevin_T / May 2nd, 2008 at 2:34 am

@ Sandi

I was not aware of neutrals being calcultated into (and reducing) the feedback percentage that is shown to the public when considering placing a bid.

QUOTE: “Neutrals have been counting 6.333 negative for purposes of determing seller performance for a year now. It has been stated as such at various times on the ebay announcement board.”

Is seller performance a public figure? Do you really feel that ALL neutrals should reduce feedback percentages when bidders are considering buying?

Sorry to be a year late on this.
Kevin

Misty / May 2nd, 2008 at 3:32 am

@Patricia
Exactly and I am a perfect example of the small seller you mention. If eBay refuses to reconsider I can not and will not expose my business to such hostility.
I do not trust eBay to protect me because in their own words I am not a “Power Seller” they give me no incentive or feeling of belonging or security… as a small seller they treat me as if I am of no value to them… They don’t take into consideration that for over 10 years I had pride in eBay and valued them enough to police their site and sent in reports of violations or that I care what happens to eBay we was a community or so I thought.

Sandi / May 2nd, 2008 at 3:56 am

@Ricahrd, if time permits – it is not as critical as my other questions – but that photo caught my eye with the 2007 8X thing.

Take a moment and look at the T&S discussion board last May/June/July 2007 posts. Pay particular attention to what restricted sellers were saying ebay customer reps (and even some of the posts from ebay T&S were telling sellers to do.

Then ask if the fact ebay’s own employees were telling sellers to use whatever resources they had/do whatever they could to convince a buyer to mutually withdraw neg and neutral feedback didn’t play a role in the sudden increase in what ebay is calling retalitory negatives by sellers.

I would also be curious if they actually investigated and verified all the negatives by buyers that ended up with negs were really retalitory.

I have seen plenty of buyers who gave a neg to a seller for no valid reason, or some really bogus reasons, e.g. the buyer who gave a seller a neg because the teapot was smaller than it looked in the photo – even though the dimensions were clearly listed in the listings, or the buyer whose feedback was decided by if he liked the movie he purchased, the neg that sticks in my mind is “Wasn’t as funny as I thought it would be”. That seller did retalite with “I did not write, direct, produce, or act in the movie, I simply sold it”

Another upcoming issue is the elimination of mututal withdrawal. How are they going to handle the newbie buyer who meant to leave a positive and does not know how he hit the neg button by error – don’t believe that happens daily? Go to the feedback answer center.

Granted how they missed the big screen that warns them they are about to leave a negative escapes me, but ebay buyers are made of the general populations which means some are crooks, some are nasty, some can’t read, etc.

Just an observation, ebay needs to be more concerned about the silent majority. I have discovered alot of my reg sellers elsewhere. They thought protesting was futile, they just packed up and moved somewhere else, taking their buyers with them for the most part. The noise comment from Feb or March insulted more than the ones making “noise”.

Bu again, if time is limited during the interview, specifics on how ebay is going to protect sellers is far more important – ask these only if time permits.

Misty / May 2nd, 2008 at 5:29 am

To more specifically answer your questions

As a seller I would leave feedback once the buyer informed me that their package had arrived safely and that they were happy with the transaction and no longer need my service.
As a buyer I would leave feedback as soon as my package arrived if there was a problem I would contact my seller and work out an arrangement that we were both happy with.

I have not left a neg in well over a year

No I do not have a neg saved up for anyone.

I have only ever left 2 negs in 10 years the last neg I left was in 2006 for a non paying bidder.Why because they left me a neg for filing a UPI.

What would I miss about it… not being able to inform other sellers of a problem buyer.

Brenda / May 2nd, 2008 at 5:48 am

I have a question.

What steps did Ebay take to educate the users, both buyer and seller during the 3 year period that showed a trend in retalitory feedback?

Were the sellers who practiced this form of coercion corrected by the company during this 3 year period?

Did any body think that by tightening up the etiquette and language standards within the feedback parameters some of the maliciousness could have been avoided?

Is there a rationale for watching stats for 3 years and noticing a less than desirable trend and not addressing the problem in a timely manner?

I’m curious because I had a post in the AC yanked becuase I used an astericked 4 letter word rather vehmently, but have read comments that have been in an individual’s feedback expressing sentiments far more vulgar than my one 4 letter word.

I don’t understand why Ebay was incapable of establishing standards of behavior that needed to be maintained by all members. You guys really dropped the ball here.

With the new feedback criteria will buyers be restricted by any parameters of language usage? Personally I haven’t checked recently to see if any common sense parameters have been applied yet.

Personally as a newish member I see a HUGE disconnect between the various factions of the overall Ebay community, with each faction having their own story AND BY GOD THEY”RE STICKIN’ TO IT!

Every update that Lori Norrington brings up are for the most part aspects that are already in place. I have no way of knowing if she thinks it’s new or if by giving it a spin someone else will.

I see effort but fail to see anything concrete that will actually produce results for all parties involved.

I have heard it stated within the site that the sellers that don’t adapt are very welcome to leave. I fail to see any real effort on the part of Ebay to help retrain the inventory keepers. It is possible to compare the styles of communication by the upper echelon of Ebay to that of the retalitory feedback givers.

I got put through my christening by a nasty power seller and was pre threatened with negative feedback. We had a nasty email feud going for a while. I believe that part of the problem in my particular case was that the seller had a very poor vocabulary and quite honestly didn’t understand me.

For the life of me I fail to understand why no professional standards were implemented within the communication arenas and find myself wondering about the capabilities of the executive level of Ebay.

This concept is a no brainer. It’s in place for employees. The sellers can rant and rave about my sentiments some more. But as representatives of a global presense why were no real standards of behavior ever established? Ebay, you dropped the ball and have now gone on overkill just like a vindictive power seller.

Eric / May 2nd, 2008 at 7:22 am

1) We have always left positive feedback right after we ship the item. I have always believed this policy promotes buyers leaving us more positive feedback. I also believe the benefit of the extra positives out weighs the downside of not leaving a negative.

However if the customer has not paid for an item, I will leave them a negative feedback. Unfortunately this happens because the buyer bought two items from eBay and only meant to buy one. Then the buyer is difficult in the UPI process and sometimes will file a Item Not Received dispute even though they haven’t paid for the item!!!

2) No, we haven’t stopped leaving them and won’t for customers who haven’t paid us.

3) Not really. I leave negative feedback after our communication and the eBay dispute process breaks down.

4) I left my last negative feedback two months ago. I will miss leaving negative feedback when the customer doesn’t pay for an item we have reserved for them for several weeks.

I noticed you glossed over the most important post from Tamebay. Neutral feedback will now be calculated in your positive score. This will remove the powerseller status from thousands of hardworking sellers. Now with the removal of leaving negative or neutral feedback, there is no difference in the effect of a negative or a neutral feedback. A lot of neutral feedback is because the customer expected more than what the description stated. So they don’t feel right in leaving a negative feedback but still leave us neutrals. eBay buyers DO NOT UNDERSTAND LEAVING A NEUTRAL FEEDBACK IS THE SAME AS A NEAGTIVE FEEDBACK with the new changes.

Patricia1 / May 2nd, 2008 at 9:10 am

“A lot of neutral feedback is because the customer expected more than what the description stated”

Reminds me of a neutral I got so many years ago. I was selling tatting shuttles (for making lace) brand new, in the box for $1.75 each. Lady left me a neutral and feedback that said “arrived quickly, just as described”. When I questioned her…she said she was pleased with the shuttle but didn’t feel a 1.75 item deserved praise!!!!! We’re supposed to just blindly believe buyers know best? You’re putting OUR reputations on the line for thinking such as this and expecting us to sit back and take it? You’re kidding us now! Like I said, I’m afraid ebay’s troubles are just beginning…as sellers actually experience these wacky new policies (can’t call them anything else) there is going to be a deafening outcry and I foresee a loss of business.

Misty / May 2nd, 2008 at 12:02 pm

I just want to say thank you to those of you questioning things I have not simply because they are issues I have fortunately yet to experience so never would have given them a thought until that became an issue for me. It is nice to know these areas are being addressed by someone who is aware of them so again Thank you!

Kevin_T / May 2nd, 2008 at 1:04 pm

@ Sandi (and Richard),
Please re-read what I quoted.

A week or two ago ebaydeveloper.typepad.com site announced “We will base the Positive Feedback Percentage on the past 12 months of activity (and include neutral Feedback in the calculation)”

This is not a 30 day or 45 day reading, this IS POSITIVE FEEDBACK PERCENTAGE calculated over 12 months. It has been removed from the Ebay developer website so it MAY have been changed again.

Since this blog entry is based on Tamebay blog, it was discussed here:
http://www.tamebay.com/2008/04/neutral-feedback-to-be-counted-as-negative.html
“Neutral feedback to be counted as negative”

The actual ebaydeveloper.typepad.com is quoted here:
http://www.thehowcafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8449

I do still want to know whether that proposal is part of the May feedback changes, and if so, I would like Richard to ask Brian Burke WHY?

Kevin

Amber / May 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm

1. What is your policy for negs?

I only leave negs for NPBs, as I’ve never had a problem with any transactions that resulted in receiving a neg.

2. Have you stopped leaving them already?

I haven’t had a reason to leave one in a few months.

3. Are you one of the sellers who has got a neg saved up to leave at the last minute?

Nope. I’m too busy taking care of my customers to worry about leaving negatives.

4. If you’ve just left your last neg (or are about to) tell us why you left it and what you’ll miss about leaving negs in the future.

My last negative was during Christmas. It was for an NPB that cussed me out in an email after I filed a UID. After some investigating, it turned out to be an underage bidder. I reported her, but no action was ever taken and she is still on the site with a -2 fb rating. I’m not the only one victimized by her.

I’ll miss being able to warn other sellers about NPBs and nutcases. Ebay expanded our BBLs, but took away our biggest tool for warning other sellers. Now we can only block problem bidders after personally experiencing their nastiness.

I’ve only left 6 negatives in 5 years–all for NPBs. Ebay’s chart of 8x re: retaliatory negatives is skewed and we all know it. Just because a fb is left last, does not make it retaliatory. And I notice an absence of data on the number of retaliatory negs left by NPBs who knew to respond to the UIDs.

The bottom line is that I don’t trust Ebay to remove bad buyers from the site. The situation I described above is a classic example of ebay’s response. It’s non-existant.

oakteak / May 2nd, 2008 at 3:58 pm

Does anyone else feel that eBay is almost entirely focused on feedback to the detriment of all else?

The main focus should be on making sales, improving the site to make sales easier, actual eBay customer service for sellers and buyers with real people that works, and helping sellers close the sales the best way they can.

How did this getting lost in all of the police state tactics?

Why are there so many impediments in the way and hoops to jump through before one can close a sale, and so many nasty things happening after the sale has been closed for so many?

eBay has become a warden.

It is beyond my comprehension how this could get so turned around in such a sick manner.

Misty / May 2nd, 2008 at 4:29 pm

@OakTeak
Because they believe our buyers are theirs there for that is who they are courting until their retail comes online then they will have no use for us sellers believing our buyers will remain for their retail junk or so that is my opinion of what’s happening.

Misty / May 2nd, 2008 at 4:38 pm

Patricia… Exactly, sort of explains why they are also trying to cause friction between buyers and sellers don’t you think?

Sandi / May 2nd, 2008 at 5:19 pm

@Kevin:

Ah, we are talking apples and oranges, I do know that in May, the feedback score/percentage will be based on the previous 12 months – although all feedback will be part of the history – I think that’s probably what you read. They will also be removing any negatives given by no longer registered members.

But the feedback score is meaningless – it no longer serves any purpose. Even power seller status is moving to DSR ratings, not feedback score. 4.5 across the board is the magically number I think.

go to August 13th on the link below – that’s the first time ebay management stated neutrals were now the new ebay negative:

http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/archive.shtml

Justin defines neutral’s as considered part of the seller rating as far as non-performance. At that time it was a 90 day window (I was wrong, I thought it was a 45 day window).

ebay finally kind of defined what all the restrictions were about – 4 months AFTER they started restricting sellers (see trust & safety discussion boards may-july to see how many sellers got hit and the replies given by ebay staff)

I have never once read anywhere from ebay management a 12 month as it relates to the various punishments.

KD / May 3rd, 2008 at 8:50 am

All sellers have a problem leaving negative feedback unless pushed to the limit and even then they leave it rarely. That shows they do not like to leave negative feedback, Mr. Donohoe.

So your reason to take their leverage to defend themselves away from them doesn’t stand up.
Sellers absolutely need a fair and balanced feedback system. The unfair feedback system only throws it out of balance, therefore it isn’t a fair system at all.

I think if there were an actual fact check or survey, statistics would show a minor number of sellers abused the feedback system.

Most sellers were serious about there business and took feedback very seriously. They worked hard for years to build up excellent track records.
Feedback records have now been messed with as well.

With all problems combined, I ask you, Mr. Donohoe, why go through such a farce that you knew would create a huge and unpleasant reaction? It is obvious that every change is not justified and the explanations given only serve to provoke a seller response and not one question is being truthfully answered.

It angers me to see the abuse. Donohoe, you ought to just come out and operate in the open. Why all the aggression and then the defense as if we are the enemy, as if WE did something to you?

The only enemy around here is someone that is very secretive and acts like he has something to hide. This is ridiculous and must be stopped. Just tell them Donohoe, you have no intention of having them around! Everything you unilaterally decided to change is working for you to get the whole community in an uproar.

Stop making these people ask questions you have no intention of answering. Stop using their time. They are trying to understand all these things you dumped on them all, all at once. Come out and tell them you intend to be relentless in your quest to change eBay and they are in for a lot more provoking pressure as each new change is rolled out. Tell them, they’re not part of the plan, they are like old furniture to you, just collecting dust and taking space.
What do you call “sacred cows”? Sounds like you think it’s really hard to get rid of them before your plans fail. I think you under estimate people’s intelligence. You terrorized these sellers. They are traumatized by your actions. Surely you didn’t think they’d just all go away just like that. You needed this vocal “noise”. Wow, just use them for every last detail. And let them know if one change doesn’t work then the next one will, and on and on for 3 years until they are all gone.

Really, do the decent thing and give it up. Only 25% of businesses can change and you picked one that has a very large resistance. If you needed to use your skills to change a company, wouldn’t it have been more logical/reasonable to find a more normal company to change?

Brenda / May 4th, 2008 at 4:44 am

I rechecked feedback criteria today and it seems that the reason that Ebay couldn’t censor feedback was due to potential legal liability to Ebay if they did.

How does the shifts in feedback procedures pan out legally?
Does the shift in policy disallowing sellers the ability to leave neutrals or negatives constitute censorship? If so, does Ebay incur any liability with the new feedback procedures? If the new policy is not a form of censorship, would someone explain this to me from a legal perspective.

What are the gains? What are the losses?

JewelrySeller / May 5th, 2008 at 9:51 am

Buyers are unhappy about negative ‘public’ feedback so sellers are no longer allowed to leave negative feedback.

I suggested/requested that sellers be able to leave honest BUYER FEEDBACK that ONLY SELLERS COULD SEE!

This allows sellers to review this non-public feedback about a buyer and decide whether to accept a transaction from this buyer or not.

The buyer is not publicly reminded or humiliated. The seller community has some level of protection against abusive or fraudulent buyers.

eBay achieves their objectives. All the honest buyers are happy. Sellers have some protection.

Win-Win-Win.

Permacrisis / May 8th, 2008 at 8:51 am

KD, your post was so on target, I printed it. God bless you.

It’s going in the binder I am keeping to someday explain to my 2-year old son what happened here, and why Daddy had to leave.