TheBrewsNews / April 29th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

QUOTE: “On the first point, it’s more accurate to say that Amazon protects sellers who ship to the address that Amazon “allows” to go through checkout, not that they protect sellers who ship to “any” address a buyer provides.”

My response:
YES YES YES and YES again!!!!! That is EXACTLY what I want as a seller. Don’t give me an eBay order where the buyer won’t pay (but of course I get the privilege of paying fees to eBay for that nonpaying bidder) and then if the bidder does pay there is a good possibility that I won’t be protected. I would gladly take an Amazon order ANY DAY where the address I am given is one that Amazon “allows.” If a customer on Amazon continually claims not to receive packages from a variety of sellers then guess what Amazon does? Yep, no more orders allowed for that buyer / address. Sounds like HEAVEN to me!

PLEASE that is EXACTLY what we eBay sellers are BEGGING eBay to do…. get rid of the deadbeat and fraudulent buyers. Or, at the very least, allow us sellers to do it ourselves by linking any new buyer’s IDs to their current or previous IDs so that we can block them ourselves. Instead, eBay is opening their welcome arms to all the Amazon-rejects. I guess that is one way to get new eBay buyers.

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QUOTE: “And to my second point above, in part to cover the cost of fraud at high price points on transactions it is letting through, Amazon charges you more than eBay and PayPal combined.”

My response:
Yep… you are right again! And I absolutely positively want that. Let’s compare my eBay versus Amazon sales for ONE particular “high price point” item. I offered the SAME exact item for sale on eBay and Amazon. I sold the item in both venues.

eBay Sale
Took me three times to list before it was sold. Paid insertion fees 3 times. Of course, I cannot get nearly as high a price on eBay as I can on Amazon for the same exact item so I have to offer the item for sale at a significantly less price AND I offer free shipping on eBay. So….

Item sold (after 3 attempts) for $199.99 and free shipping.
eBay fees (insertion and final value fees) of $13.76
Paypal fees $6.10
Total paid to eBay / Paypal – $19.86
NET proceeds received – $180.13

Amazon Sale
Of course I receive a much higher price for the same item AND I charged shipping fees to the buyer.

Item sold for $259.99 plus $28.77 shipping.
Insertion fee – $0
Amazon commission $43.32
NET proceeds received – $245.44

It’s kind of a no-brainer for me… I get $180.13 net proceeds from eBay or $245.44 net proceeds from Amazon for the exact same item. Amazon can charge me more than eBay any day! For me, it is a Win/Win on Amazon for high price point items.

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Randy Smythe / April 29th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

TheBrewsNews

Can I repost you comment on my blog? That is a perfect example of the differences between the marketplaces.

On eBay you have the “eBay discount” to account for perception of the marketplace.

it has never actually been about the fees IMO. Sellers want value for their fees and are willing to pay more for more value.

Please email me and let me know if I could repost your example.

Thanks
RKS

CrunchyPostingGoodness / April 29th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

Richard,

I thank you so much for asking my question, but as is the norm for eBay, Monroe Labouisse completely missed the main point of my question, and if fact, provided completely incorrect information with regards to Amazon. Please allow me to clarify and correct.

First, my main question was, “Why isn’t PayPal confirming ALL buyer shipping addresses for ALL sellers?” I’m not sure how much clearer I can make it. Labouisse’s response is in regards to Power Seller protections only, so unless all sellers are Power Sellers (and I know they are not), then his entire response is worthless and has nothing to do with the question I asked. Even Colin, from PayPal, was able to understand my question when I asked him in this blog, so I’m not sure how someone who is supposed to be educated like Labouisse is not able to understand it too.

1. An Amazon buyer can enter any Ship To address they want and Amazon guarantees it. The buyer enters the Ship To address at the time of payment, so it appears on the sellers packing list. Buyers do not change the Ship To address after the fact, and are in fact, instructed not to contact the seller after the fact to switch it by Amazon. The address does NOT need to match the credit card or the buyer’s address. So when Labouisse says, “it’s more accurate to say that Amazon protects sellers who ship to the address that Amazon “allows” to go through checkout, not that they protect sellers who ship to “any” address a buyer provides”, he is wrong. I sell on Amazon, as a Pro-Merchant, and I can guarantee you that he is wrong.

2. He is also wrong about, “Amazon charges more for transactions at high price points (where fraud is most likely to take place) than eBay and PayPal together charge”. The most Amazon charges is 15% of the entire transaction, dependent upon the category. They do not base it on “price point”, but on competition levels determined by the number of sellers in a particular category. In fact Electronic items and Computers, which would be considered “high risk” only get charged 8%. The category I sell in, which is considered “low risk”, is 15% commission. I do not pay a listing fee – I do not have to re-list (paying more fees) every 7 or 10 days. I don’t know where he is getting his misinformation from. Perhaps it is the same place which tells eBay these changes are good?

Not to mention the fact that I can sell my items there for more money and less hassle than eBay.

I have had two charge backs attempted against my account there, and neither one was granted. The buyer didn’t go through any Amazon claim process. The buyers tried to perform charge backs directly through their credit card company, and Amazon did NOT allow it. All I needed to do was provide Amazon with the delivery confirmation number, which showed the item was delivered, and I got to keep my money. I think we all know from BrewNews’s experience how well PayPal protects sellers with regards to charge backs. These were my actual experiences with Amazon. They are fact, and therefore I place more trust in them than Labousisse’s fiction.

Perhaps you should invite him to post here, so he can become educated on how Amazon really operates and protects its sellers?

“Second, sometimes we let transactions go through that we choose not to protect, but we let merchants know when that is the case and provide them with information they need to decide on their own what’s right for their business.”

…and the buyer can leave negative feedback for the seller, should PayPal decide to let an unsecured payment go through, and the seller refuses the payment. Perhaps they do that because it isn’t PayPal who will lose money, but the seller?

Again Richard, I thank you for asking the question. However, I’m sorry that Director of North American Marketplaces, PayPal, choose not to address it.

Perhaps you can ask it again, or have him read the responses here, so perhaps he will understand the question better?

CrunchyPostingGoodness / April 29th, 2008 at 8:41 pm

I would also like to add that as to the value of eBay & PayPal fees vs those I pay to Amazon – I see no comparison.

1. Amazon protects me for all Ship To addresses the buyer provides during checkout – Ebay does not. I’m not a Power Seller on eBay.

2. eBay raised its fees, but offered no additional value or features. Sellers pay those fees, even if their item doesn’t sell. Amazon offers me everything I could ever want. I do not pay anything if my item doesn’t sell and I don’t have to continually re-list it.

3. I can sell my items for significantly more on Amazon and with less hassle than eBay.

4. Amazon provides me with an actual, educated person to address any questions or concerns I may have. Ebay just gives me unrelated, automatic canned email responses. I have to call PayPal at least 5 times, and speak to 5 different people, just to get one small issue or question resolved.

5. Amazon listens, and acts on my suggestions for improving their site. eBay – all we get is double talk and silence.

These are just a few of the differences. I, like Brew’s, am happy to pay the fees for a well functioning product. Amazon provides that – eBay does not.

On a side note, I’m a little concerned with Labousisse’s response for another reason. In the “eBay Australia Announces Safe Payment Initiative” thread, Colin Rule, Director of Online Dispute Resolution at PayPal stated on 4.22.2008 at 11:06 PM,
“As Rajiv said at the last eBay Live, that’s the ultimate goal of all these expanded seller protection efforts. We rolled out to Power Sellers first, but it’s clear where all this is heading. I can’t say when it will happen, but I know what the eventual objective is, and it’s exactly what you describe. As Rajiv put it, he wants to make every address confirmed on PayPal. Which of course would mean the end of confirmed addresses.”

Yet, Labousisse made no mention of that at all. Wouldn’t that have been the ideal time to reiterate such a plan for the future? Or is this another case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing?

The more I see and hear, the less confidence I have in eBay’s and PayPal’s ability to monitor things properly. How can they monitor millions of users, when they can’t even manage their own employees?

I was comforted by the thought that PayPal was actively planning to make ALL buyer addresses confirmed for ALL sellers, but it appears this is not the plan at all.

Patricia 1 / April 29th, 2008 at 8:49 pm

@ Brews – thanks for that comparison – its a real eye opener.

Sandi / April 29th, 2008 at 11:55 pm

Richard, I asked some questions that relate directly to the upcoming feedback changes last week. While it was nice you got some answers, the feedback issue is truly critical to sellers. Given most of us think ebay management has really lost touch with the environment of ebay, can you please get some answers so sellers can make educated decisions as it relates to the feedback changes?

It would be very helpful in light that often times the employees sellers contact when an issue arises don’t know the rules themselves, as illustrated by the post regarding ebay pulling digital listings before the policy changed.

=====repost with edits=========

Richard, below is the email sellers got today from ebay, I would request you obtain additional information and let us know, as you will note, it is the standard ebay vague:

“Feedback changes to benefit sellers
eBay’s making some important changes to Feedback in May to boost buyer confidence and improve the eBay marketplace. The changes include important protections for sellers against unfair negative Feedback. Negative or neutral Feedback will be removed when it appears a buyer is abusing the system. If you think this is happening to you, report to eBay by using the Contact Us link on any eBay Help page. We’ll also remove Feedback when a buyer doesn’t respond to an Unpaid Item (UPI) report, or if buyer responds but doesn’t specifically call out seller performance, item condition or transaction problems. ”

1. Feedback changes to benefit sellers

—-
Did they laugh when they came up with that sentence?

2. The changes include important protections for sellers against unfair negative Feedback. Negative or neutral Feedback will be removed when it appears a buyer is abusing the system.

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What’s the rule, 5%, 40%, when we feel like it? What guideline was written and given to the employees who will be determining this?

How many employees have been hired to ensure customer service being timely and responsive? Saying “we have expended resources” could mean they added a new reply bot, an extra server to catch email afterall. What specifically has ebay done to ensure sellers are in fact protected? Is there an actual email address – not the form – but an email address a seller can contact?

3. if buyer responds but doesn’t specifically call out seller performance, item condition or transaction problems.

—-
Call me simple minded, but this one is just plain puzzling. If a buyer does not pay, how can they possibly have a valid comment about seller performance, item condition or transaction problems? Most sellers follow ebay/Paypal’s rule – get paid before you ship afterall.

Again, how many employees will now be now reviewing ALL UPI disputes, we all know it was an automated system previously, again, can you provide us with the guideline written for employees are responsible for making these decisions.

Look forward to your answers. Thanks Richard!

Patricia1 / April 30th, 2008 at 11:50 am

Perhaps if ebay LOWERED fees to a reasonable amount…took ADS off our listings that distract buyers….and did a little ADVERTISING with our fees to attract some buyers…we could AFFORD to offer free shipping. Trouble with ebay is they want EVERYTHING at EVERYONE elses EXPENSE and want to offer NOTHING in return! :-)

JJH / April 30th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

@Patricia1

As Permacrisis says, ask the clerk to do an “Acceptance Scan” when you hand the package over. Mine do it all the time for me. Chances are they already know you at your PO and wouldn’t mind. In fact, if I just leave the package on the counter and don’t say anything, 75% of the time it will be scanned on acceptance anyway.

I wasn’t aware that the USPS tells clerks NOT to accept scan packages. What sense does that make? What’s the point of the delivery confirmation system if you can’t see the package is in the system? “Billing Information Received” (same code UPS uses) means NOTHING. You can’t actually prove the package has been mailed and is in the system unless you have a scan showing either it’s been accepted, was scanned somewhere along the way, or “deliver scanned”. Which, incidentally about 1% of my packages are not (delivery scanned). They stay forever as “acceptance scan” or “Billing Information Received”.

Permacrisis / May 1st, 2008 at 9:19 am

Basically all 3 are right.

I worked USPS for years, was there when the first Symbol 386-based scanners came in, and watched the DC “no acceptance” policy come down later.

USPS are quasi-governmental, quasi-corporate– arguably the worst of both. The craze as of late is revenue, revenue, revenue generation. If it doesn’t increase revenue, don’t do it, hence the refusal to do over-counter scans. What can’t be assessed is the loss of customer goodwill that results– same as ebay.

So it’s OK to stand around on break, lines out the door. But it’s verboten to scan a barcode on the clock. That wastes “labor”– as if labor comes in 5 gallon cans… You roll your eyes so often in that place, you have to unkink your optic nerves.

Delivery confirmation was never intended to provide real-time tracking, and is usually 1 day off. (Ebay corporate probably doesn’t even know this.)

Even in the best-case delivery confirmation scenario, scans don’t upload till that night. The carrier’s handheld scanners are not returned to their charging cradles till 6 pm when they come off the road. Scans do not upload till nighttime, a throwback to the days when it was done over phone lines.

To predicate a sellers reputation, exposure, and indeed livelihood on Delivery Confirmation is to invite disaster. But that’s on them. You owe it to yourself, green hi-liter in hand, to do the best you can with it- at least until you can leave here.

Patricia1 / May 1st, 2008 at 10:17 am

@ perma – I begged them for a roll of tape. They are so stiff even chocolate wouldn’t help. I get the tape from a friend who has to mail them to me. Her post office just gives them to her because she’s always there LOL Maybe they don’t like little old gray haired ladies :-) I’ve seen them at their worst. In the huge post office where I used to live there was one elderly clerk who was probably near retirement. Just the meanest person and he would always say they can’t do anything about me. I do as I please and they can’t do a thing to me. I though – wow! if that was me I’d be fired on the spot. Is it really like that or was this character just off his rocker?

Patricia1 / May 1st, 2008 at 11:17 am

@ Amber – I heard that before…however, most of my paintings are tiny with maybe one or two large ones each week. I’ll keep that in mind though. For the more expensive paintings I still will stand in line and get tracking – its well worth the extra 65 cents.

Sandi / May 1st, 2008 at 4:41 pm

@JJH

I lived in Houston for 5 years and got the surprise of my life. The main post office is located next door to Bush International Airport – that post office is one of 3 or 4 in the US open 24/7/365.

I rarely went inside (that was a mess as it was the one and only passport center in Houston), but they had a door and ramp where the trucks loaded and unloaded. You simply rang the bell and they were there, often times helping me upload the car.

My mail person was great about pickups as well, she never once complained when I opted for pickup at the house.

“yet we still have rate increases”

They use gas – I realized just how out of touch ebay was when they were saying free shipping was the “standard” for ecommerce – do they never fill their own gas tanks?

Do they not watch the news talking about truckers threatening strike because of the cost of diesel fuel? How does the ebay braintrust think these packages get from seller to buyer???

Shipping across the board has gone up at the same rate as the price of oil. I just shipped 3 packages UPS that cost 42.00-48.00 each, last year those same size paintings cost me 24.00 – 29.00 to ship.

KD / May 3rd, 2008 at 9:19 am

Matt Halprin: “There is one suggestion I’ve heard that we’ve debated internally on. If we gave a small final value credit for sellers that provide free shipping, since eBay is actually making a little more money on that transaction, that’s something we’ve talked about”.

Ah,ah…I see, now I know you all must have ben hired to run us in circles.

Enough is enough. Mr. Halprin, I buy that just as much as I bought the reason why my bidder ID is masked.

What are you people trying to prove. Whatever it is, it’s being done by design. I think you are stalling for time to go by.

We, as sellers need to wake up fast. They have no intention of constructively helping sellers. It doesn’t make sense to most of you, in time it will become clear. For now, just know that this whole scheme is meant to cover up for some other insidious reason.

Trust yourselves, you know someting is really wrong. There is something really wrong. Put your guard up, eBay is not your friend. Definitely for sure, they do not have your best interets at heart. I’m sorry~ It’s very sad for us~

Patricia1 / May 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 am

Everybody here is venting and spinning their wheels. Its clear to me that this whole blog idea was a platform for them to try to get us to believe all the changes are good. They were going to come in here one at a time and explain how much better off we’ll (they’ll) be once all the changes are made. The fact that we can see right thru ALL the changes they are making is beyond them. So, since all the venting here…they’ve kind of gone away. We’re a waste of their time and they have no logical debate against what we say – we’re just too in-the-know to bother with ;-)

Lisa / May 3rd, 2008 at 6:39 pm

Well, it’s become clear where Ebay is heading and what changes they have in mind. I’m a Powerseller-have been on Ebay for 8 years-and have made a very good supplemental income for my family. We’ve come to depend on the money.

Then in January, Ebay announces upcoming changes that make no sense. Since then, they’ve been stringing sellers along giving out bits and pieces of information. Then suddenly, after reading about Buy.com, the lightbulb in my head comes on and I realize I’ve been given my pink slip. This is my job, my income. Sure, there’s some up-and-coming auction sites out there, but nothing that has the kind of traffic Ebay has. I’m trying to decide if I should list a big lot clearance on Ebay and go into something different, or start again on one of those new sites.

Ebay exec’s don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves. This is a company that has no conscience about throwing people out on the streets. If they do it to the little “sellers”, they’ll do it to the big ones. I believe what comes around goes around, as Pollyannish as that sounds. People will get a clue soon enough. I honestly don’t see Ebay faring so well in the future.

This company was so unique and brilliant. A global flea market. People loved it and flocked to it. These execs don’t get it. I don’t care what colleges they graduated from. They don’t get Ebay and they don’t get the people who love it. But maybe when they’re out on the streets, it’ll dawn on them. I only hope.