Lorrie Norrington Keynote at eCommerce Summit

TheBrewsNewsOn 04.24.2008 at 8:59 am Said:

I am feeling really safe right now…….

Date of eBay sale - January 12th
Item was shipped immediately with delivery confirmation. The address provided was a confirmed shipping address and was eligible for seller protection.

Buyer claimed item itself was just fine (an electronic item) but the packaging (plastic) the item arrived in was not perfect and because the buyer wanted to store the item in the original packaging they were unhappy. No problems, we said, we’ll send you a prepaid postage label and have you return the item for a full refund. Buyer grudgingly agreed although what he really wanted was for us to provide a partial refund and for him to keep the item. We sent a prepaid label and informed the seller that they must ship within 7 days and to let us know when the item was back in route to us. No response. We email at the end of 7 days and notify the buyer that on day 10 we MUST have notification of return shipment or we have to cancel the prepaid label or we lose the postage. No response.

February 29th - paypal notifies us that a chargeback was filed.
We respond with all relevant information including proof of delivery.

March 14th - paypal notes that they lose the dispute.

March 24th - we are sent an email from paypal notifying us that they lost the chargeback dispute and thus we are out both the money ( $ 65.95 ) and the product.

We call Paypal to find out how the customer can keep the product AND have his money returned when we followed all the paypal seller protection rules and even went above and beyond in our offer to pay for return shipping. Paypal’s response is that the buyer told the credit card company that they were not given return instructions and thus couldn’t return the product. Excuse me? Our return address was on the original shipping label, we provided a prepaid return label AND Paypal has our address. So why did Paypal not respond to the credit card company and say “Hey, here is the seller’s address you can return the item to” since Paypal has my address.

Yes, I am sure the Australians are looking forward to an “All-Paypal” marketplace which will be much safer.

TheBrewsNewsOn 04.24.2008 at 9:13 am Said:

Oops! The dates are April 14th and April 24th rather than March. I’m so busy multi-tasking right now that I typed in March instead of April. The days and months pass so quickly that most of the time I’m not even sure what day or month it is!

Patricia 1On 04.24.2008 at 9:32 am Said:

Well…..so much for Paypal protection. Do you have no right at all to contact the credit card company directly? Under the circumstances I think I would email the customer and tell them since they have their money back you consider the item stolen and will report them to their local police dept.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 04.24.2008 at 9:42 am Said:

Richard,

This would probably be a very good time to bring in someone from PayPal to address this issue.

I’ve only had two charge back ever attempted by customers on Amazon, and neither buyer won.

When I spoke to Amazon’s customer service I was told that even if Amazon lost a dispute with the credit card company, Amazon would take the lose, and allow me to keep my money, since I did everything Amazon requires of me as a seller on their site.

That is how a service and site earns the respect of its users.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 04.24.2008 at 10:31 am Said:

@ Richard,

Just to clarify, when I wrote “That is how a service and site earns the respect of its users.” I was referring to PayPal and eBay - not you.

I can clearly see that you are doing everything within your power to make sure these issues are being brought to the powers that be. I just wanted to make sure you knew that was not a comment against you or this blog site.

TheBrewsNewsOn 04.24.2008 at 10:33 am Said:

Richard, I would be more than happy to provide you with the Chargeback Case number and the name of the Paypal representative that I spoke with today (since the email was just sent today).

Unfortunately, the “scenario” I presented is not unusual. I only wish that it were. My intent was to give a SPECIFIC example of a CURRENT problem (since the email I received was sent today notifying me that the chargeback was lost, I feel that qualifies as being a current problem even though the chargeback was filed almost 2 months ago). There are thousands of eBay sellers who could give you similiar-type examples and I myself could fill a book about eBay injustices. We sellers are a “passionate” bunch but we have very real FACTUAL reasons to feel frustrated and angry.

We don’t want to hear general overviews of how eBay intends on making the marketplace safe or fun or anything else. We want specifics and more than anything else, WE WANT ACTION! We want eBay and Paypal to roll up their sleeves and do some of the hard work rather than put their head in the sand and point the finger at the sellers.

The really sad thing is that many eBay sellers have some amazingly spot-on ideas about how to “fix” the eBay marketplace but nobody at eBay is listening.

TWOn 04.24.2008 at 11:22 am Said:

THEBREWSNEWS said…

“The really sad thing is that many eBay sellers have some amazingly spot-on ideas about how to “fix” the eBay marketplace but nobody at eBay is listening.”

This has been the number one complaint I have about eBay, especially of late. Supposedly eBay wants to listen but so far I have seen very little evidence of that.

Even if you can rectify THEBREWSNEWS problems, why should the problem have to be brought up on a blog before it gets the proper attention? It’s the typical customer service problem we see day in and day out.

Hello … sellers are leaving and we have to believe that is what eBay wants, for the small seller to leave. Does eBay care? It appears not!

DonOn 04.24.2008 at 11:28 am Said:

Hi,

I’m not commenting on DSR’s feedback or charge backs. I think you know how most sellers feel about that.

My major concern is that eBay may cancel a listing or suspend an account an account at any time without warning then make it darn near impossible to have the matter addressed in a timely manner.

I would be happy to sell exclusively on eBay if I felt confident that my listings would be secure. Unfortunately I never know if my listings will still be there when I boot up my computer the next morning. As it is I maintain sites with other people because I never know when the axe may fall.

If you can communicate that concern to the powers that be it would be appreciated.

Don

TheBrewsNewsOn 04.24.2008 at 11:50 am Said:

TW, I am certainly not asking Richard to try and solve my Paypal problem. I just offered to provide the specific details so that he could verify the FACTS. Anyone can say anything on a blog but I can back up what I am saying with real facts.

Frankly, I wrote off the $65.95 two months ago when the chargeback dispute was filed because I had no faith that Paypal would fight on my behalf.

PermacrisisOn 04.24.2008 at 12:04 pm Said:

eBay was a great idea and it was an idea that worked. The current infatuation with retail is somewhat justified although it is out of sync with the current recession, I mean who wants a new ANYTHING right now? Plus, how can you interpret a test result whose feedback loop affects its own outcome?

eBay would have you believe that auction format has gone out of style, that one-offs and uniques are out of demand, and that they were part of the internet bubble.

Baloney, if Yahoo reboots or Goog starts up an auction house you watch how quickly ebay sues them– they will, as usual, want it both ways.

Only this time, they have a weapon: I’m afraid now that they own the mercxchange patents, all the other auction sites are in real trouble. If any of them ramp up, you just watch– ebay will harangue them with the patents and try to blow them back to the stone age. And it’s typical of their post-2006, slash-and-burn mentality… deny ground you’ve abandoned to any one else who may do it better.

Those are my fears– I hope I’m just a froot loop.

MI2HIGHOn 04.24.2008 at 2:03 pm Said:

OT-Question.
New to blogs am I
I am wondering why some of the user names are in black and some in red?
Does it mean something?

TWOn 04.24.2008 at 3:25 pm Said:

TheBrewsNews … “TW, I am certainly not asking Richard to try and solve my Paypal problem. I just offered to provide the specific details so that he could verify the FACTS. Anyone can say anything on a blog but I can back up what I am saying with real facts.”

I was not insinuating that you were asking anything of Richard but merely pointing out a consistent failure of the system.

Too many times I have seen problems brought to the boards, especially the PayPal board, that could not be solved through normal CS channels but were taken care of once made “public”. I do not feel this is the way CS should work.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 04.24.2008 at 3:28 pm Said:

@ Richard

Can you please give us some examples of “… I’ve already encountered my fair share of issues I’d like to get answers on.”?

I would really like to know. I think I would find it comforting (as weird as that sounds) that someone who is employed by eBay is dealing with the same frustrations other users are, and validation that are experiences are real.

@ Brews

I think verifiable situations like yours are exactly the type that Richard needs to know about. That way their can be no confusion about what really happened. eBay department representatives will have to answer to the facts, rather than pawn it off as a fluke, or “that never happens, or “the person was misinformed”.

DaveyOn 04.24.2008 at 3:30 pm Said:

@Richard

I’m awaiting the Customer Service blog with bated breath, as I think this is eBay’s root achilles heel with trust and everything else. I believe that eBay’s two goals of a self-service venue and control of the site are mutually exclusive and clash heavily. As noted earlier, I took note of how Lorrie’s speech noted that sellers who did not put customer service as prime importance were not welcome on eBay–an interesting conundrum as eBay sells services to me via the marketplaces yet is the antithesis of customer service.

I will also support Don’s contention that surprise listing takedowns are a great source of irritation and they expose a seller to whole the customer service failure again. I’ve had a listing taken down (mentioned in another thread) not because it violated a policy, but because it was read in a millisecond and a mistake was made based on a keyword taken out of context. First I endured the boilerplate bot-o-matic for a couple rounds, getting different policy quotes I had “violated.” Then, when I finally got a human, they agreed that I did not do what I was accused of, but “often times we take down listings anyway that we might [mis]read this way.” No admission and correction of a mistake. Lots of apologies, though. eBay got zero stars for that effort.

I compare T&S’s attitude to a group of vigilantes going into the bad part of town and gunning down anyone showing a tatoo. “Well, we might have made some mistakes, but hey, we certainly got a couple bad guys too.”

Any other business that wants to keep their customers considers customer loyalty and history, and plays on that when nurturing the relationship. eBay doesn’t. Not only that, they appear clueless that this is killing their reputation more than anything else!

If I’d seen good customer service in action, I might actually have confidence in some of eBay’s promises surrounding these changes. I wouldn’t miss giving negative feedback that much (I’ve only left 3 in 2500 transactions), but I do miss not seeing bad buyers in advance through their feedback, as I have no confidence eBay will protect me.

DaveyOn 04.24.2008 at 3:39 pm Said:

@Crunchy

“eBay department representatives will have to answer to the facts, rather than pawn it off as a fluke, or “that never happens, or “the person was misinformed”.”

You forgot the official terminology for these events that always go against the buyer’s favor–”a glitch.”

I know many of us could supply factual cases of what we talk about. My listing takedown would be primo, but I trust this blog will take some time to accomplish its purpose and could get overwhelmed with facts.

We need a marketplace that is level, fair, stable, and healthy. I think we all agree on that. Unfortunately I think we are all pawns in an experiment that will some time down the road be, like New Coke–a freshman study in how data is misinterpreted/how not to run a business/how to treat your customers.