Lorrie Norrington Keynote at eCommerce Summit

implogOn April 23, 2008 at 1:39 pm Said:

Richard

Please

Ask her how a buyer can be dissatisfied with an item they never received. Sellers DO NOT send items to buyers who do not pay.

A buyer saying they are dissatisfied with an item never paid for and never sent is as nonsensical as a buyer replying “Red Beans and Rice are Awfully Nice.” to an Unpaid Item Dispute.

Please help her understand this.

~~~~
Below copied from her PESA presentation.

“The first is that we will remove negative and neutral
feedback left for you – retroactively – when a buyer is unresponsive to an unpaid item claim or if they respond to the claim without expressing dissatisfaction with the item or your performance.”

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn April 23, 2008 at 3:11 pm Said:

I would also like to know how eBay is going to prevent buyers who have been blocked from creating new ids to get around the block.

If buyers know sellers can block them based on an UPI, what will prevent these buyers from creating new throw away ids to continue this behavior under. This is just one of the current loopholes that scamming buyers can exploit.

JJHOn April 23, 2008 at 3:17 pm Said:

“feedback left for sellers will be removed – retroactively – when a buyer is unresponsive to an unpaid item claim or if they respond to the claim without expressing dissatisfaction with the item or your performance”

What don’t they understand? This makes no sense. I would never ship the item if I wasn’t paid, so how can they claim dissatisfaction? D’oh!

Patricia 1On April 23, 2008 at 3:23 pm Said:

“What don’t they understand? This makes no sense. I would never ship the item if I wasn’t paid, so how can they claim dissatisfaction? D’oh!”

Under certain circumstances they will hold back your Paypal payment 21 days….you are, of course, expected to ship the item and patiently wait for your buyer to graciously leave you feedback in order to get your money a bit earlier than that. (Lots of expletives here). My momma didn’t raise no fools. Nothing ever leaves here that hasn’t been paid for…period! Get used to that ebay cause you’re going to hear it from a lot of sellers.

implogOn April 23, 2008 at 3:33 pm Said:

Ms. Norrington said;

“For sellers, we believe, this is much less of an issue, because your primary concern is, and should be, whether you are paid for your merchandise. But because you don’t ship until you have been paid, …”

The above quote from her presentation makes it seem as if she DOES understand the seller/buyer process. Sellers do not ship until paid. Yet she also says in her presentation;

“The first is that we will remove negative and neutral
feedback left for you – retroactively – when a buyer is unresponsive to an unpaid item claim or if they respond to the claim without expressing dissatisfaction with the item or your performance.”

?????????????????

If the seller does not send the item due to non-payment as Ms.Norrington acknowledges in the first quote, how in the name of red beans and rice can eBay allow a non-paying buyer to leave a negative against a seller due to “dissatisfaction with the item” if the item is never sent as she allows in the second quote?

Richard — take Ms. Norrington to Felix’s. Buy her a dozen on the half shell. Get her a cup of decaf so she won’t get even more “excited” and ask her to explain this conundrum. Expense it.

Then,

laissez les bons temps rouler!

implogOn April 23, 2008 at 3:37 pm Said:

It just hit me.

Maybe there is no way to say “I/we screwed up” in Disruptionese.

That would explain a lot.

Patricia 1On April 23, 2008 at 4:18 pm Said:

Hmmm…..you may have a point there. I sure do wish that once and for all they would realize that sellers do NOT trust them. They haven’t had much trust in Ebay management in years. Ebay hasn’t earned trust from sellers. I’m not saying that to be mean…just speaking honestly. There is going to be one heck of a fight if they start trying to hold paypal payments for any reason. When I’m paid, the first thing I do is go to Paypal and check to see if it has been added to my account…then and only then do I ship the item out. I have done business with reputable companies that I trust and shipped first and waited 30 days for payment. I do that now with the distributor who buys my lace pattern books for resale….yet I wouldn’t dream of doing it with ebay. Sorry.

MechelleOn April 23, 2008 at 4:25 pm Said:

I hear you on the paypal holds- there is no way I would ever ship without payment first. I’ll simply contact the buyer explain eBay/PayPal’s theft of her/his payment and that unfortunately we will not be able to complete the transaction do to non-payment. Of course offer a mutual to not complete and then my would be customer can take the issue up with the thieves herself.

I would rather take a hit on my feedback than a loss on my money.

they are flat out insane

and I sell low dollar products anyone selling expensive products would be stupid to ship the item.

MechelleOn April 23, 2008 at 5:11 pm Said:

Norrington

“We’ve already talked about this on Ink, but Lorrie confirmed that PowerSellers’ shipping cost DSRs for cross-border trades are only .02 points lower than domestic.”

Well gee, do you think .02 points can affect the DSR scores?? Yeah if you have enough of them

“First, sellers can block buyers who have had more than one Unpaid Item strike in the past 12 months”

I want to block anyone with even one unpaid item- I shouldn’t have to do business with someone who even on 1 occasion failed to follow through on their commitment. My item being shelved for 15 days, because someone lacks integrity is outrageous, and I prefer not to have that risk when the individual has already demonstrated their lack of integrity in the past 12 months.

“Second, beginning in May, sellers will be able to block buyers who have been reported by other sellers for policy violations like Feedback extortion or Feedback abuse.”

Well, just how am I supposed to know if a buyer has an out of the sellers view eBay profile reflecting their deviant behavior? Why are these people still allowed in the marketplace at all? Shouldn’t they be suspended? Isn’t that what an ethical company would do to protect their customers?

“The first is that negative and neutral feedback left for sellers will be removed – retroactively – when a buyer is unresponsive to an unpaid item claim or if they respond to the claim without expressing dissatisfaction with the item or your performance (this is aimed at resolving the situation where a buyer responds to the UPI claim but the response is nonsense).”

Well, I haven’t looked for the info lately, but the last time I read eBay recommends that UPI buyers respond to the dispute even if it just to say they are not paying- anything say anything- so they are still able to leave feedback. There is just no way to view this as anything other than villainous behavior on eBay’s part. To actually encourage members who are deviant to say whatever so they still have the opportunity to leave feedback- what is wrong with you people? If someone violates eBay’s TOS they should have nothing but a strike leading to indefinite suspension- not the right to negatively affect my feedback on top of their causing my item not to be listed for 15 days. I swear you people are demented.

“Secondly, negative or neutral feedback left by buyers who have been suspended from our marketplace for Feedback Extortion or other policy violations, will also be removed.”

What other violations?- do you people know how to use concrete examples for anything? Words are simply that – the reality is we have no information regarding any member’s deviant profile because eBay hides it behind “privacy rights”. What a joke!

Wake up people- we are not as stupid as you like to imagine- or maybe it’s you who are stupid and we just give you to much credit.

DaveyOn April 23, 2008 at 5:26 pm Said:

Four comments on Ms. Norrington’s speech:

First, does she realize how incredibly terrible eBay’s customer support and T&S are? I’d like to see responsibility for this addressed before I hear ANY reassurances of how eBay will protect me as a seller. I’ve seen none to-date, although I’ve experienced continuous reasons not to trust. She says, “As I said before, sellers who do not make customer service a priority make it difficult for everyone and are not
welcome on eBay.” Expanding the word “seller” to eBay as an entity selling a service to me, this statement means that eBay is not welcome on their own venue, due to their zero star customer service.

Second, on cross-border DSRs, I believe her data is grossly defective based on my own experience. This data also needs explanation as to the type and price of goods included in the data, and across how many sellers the data was taken. If I ship expensive items using Express Mail International, where the shipping price is small compared to the item, I will get a whole different set of data than if I try shipping a $20 item requiring Express Mail International. Another instance of eBay potentially misinterpreting data to their own favor. And, if I don’t ship using expensive, tracked methods, how much related seller pain is there because SPP cannot be obtained?

I’d really like to hear, face-to-face, an eBay exec explain why Shipping Time is not an automatic DSR between payment clearance and shipper acceptance. This should be this way across the board, which would be fairer than sujective measurement.

Third, there was the nauseous statement: “We lowered insertion fees and adjusted final value fees, creating a structure that shifts much more of the risk of listing an item onto eBay.” All I know as a seller is that they shifted the risk of low sell-through listers onto my back, as a high sellthrough lister!!! I’s like to finally see honesty in that the word “adjusted” would be changed to “raised.” This use of weasel wording opens the wounds afresh every time sellers hear it.

Fourth, eBay still has an identity problem relative to customers as shown in this statement: “Today, everyone at eBay recognizes that we have to fight hard each and every day to win your business because you – along with our buyers – are our customers.” Buyers are not eBay’s buyers, they are the sellers’ buyers!! Buyers are not eBay’s customers, sellers are!! Why is that so hard to understand for eBay management???

Fifth is this little gem: “In plain English, Detailed Seller Ratings are a way for us to measure buyer satisfaction on eBay” Plain English??? How ironic. Why are there two definitions of a satisfactory performance? It is definitely not plain English.

Finally, I like how many times Lorrie uses phrases like “straight up,” “blunt,” and other gems which convey transparency, as there is none. It doesn’t take much effort to see through the smokescreen.

eBay, get your own house in order first, then talk to your sellers about theirs.

KarenOn April 23, 2008 at 5:42 pm Said:

In reference to Norrington’s comment in 4. Two new buyer requirements were introduced today to further promote seller protection. First, sellers can block buyers who have had more than one Unpaid Item strike in the past 12 months (previously it was restricted to more than one UPI strike in the last 30 days).

I’ve been on the site and and wanted to active this in my buyer requirements but this is not the case. It is still showing the 30 day restriction only.

Anyone know anything more about this? The one thing I’ve learned is that I can’t trust what eBay says which is sad.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn April 23, 2008 at 5:49 pm Said:

@ Richard

Can you please have this statement clarified?

“Second, beginning in May, sellers will be able to block buyers who have been reported by other sellers for policy violations like Feedback extortion or Feedback abuse.”

Does that mean the buyer is blocked the instant the seller makes a report, or after eBay has taken its time determining if the report is valid or not?

When a seller leaves a Neg it appears instantly, so that other sellers are immediately aware of the situation. Does eBay plan to have the block effective immediately upon the report’s submission?

DaveyOn April 23, 2008 at 6:22 pm Said:

@Richard

“We’ve already talked about this on Ink, but Lorrie confirmed that PowerSellers’ shipping cost DSRs for cross-border trades are only .02 points lower than domestic.”

Being that you used the word “confirmed” above, could you obtain and tell us the characteristics of the data set used to make Ms. Norrington’s statement? Specifically:

1. What countries were the cross-border sales used made to (country is VERY important)?

2. What was the average price per item sold?

3. What was the breakdown of the shipping method(s) used in the trades that were tracked?

All of these factors can grossly distort both shipping DSRs. It is troubling that rather than making an effort to make these DSRs fair, eBay is using what could be grossly defective data to justify yet another decision.

permacrisisOn April 23, 2008 at 6:29 pm Said:

Just verify everybody’s drivers licenses, like Yahoo Auctions did. What’s the problem?

Suppose your 85 million users really wind up being only 30 million actual people. So what? That would in essence increase how much each spent, making them a more valuable asset than previously supposed. I don’t see the big deal, what is ebay so scared of?

Get a real head count. Verify everybody. Now see? That wasn’t so bad.

implogOn April 23, 2008 at 6:43 pm Said:

Ms. Norrington:

We’d like to help you learn to help yourself. Look around you. All you see are sympathetic eyes.

Here’s to you Ms. Norrington!

TheBrewsNewsOn April 23, 2008 at 7:17 pm Said:

QUOTE from LORRIE:

“1. Back in January, eBay said that the goal was to have 60% of PowerSellers qualify for at least a 5% discount and in Q1, 63% did qualify for at least the 5%.”

MY QUESTION / COMMENTS:

Of those 63%, how many would have qualified for the 15% discount if the Last DSR (shipping) qualification would have been 4.6 instead of a flat 4.8 across the board? If the median powerseller has 4.8 in Item as Described, Communication, and Shipping Time and then 4.6 in S&H charge (statistics from eBay) then why was the decision made to give the 5% discount for Powersellers who have 4.8 across the board?

What eBay is REALLY doing then is simply making the majority of the reward based solely on the one DSR criterion. Just one criterion makes the difference between a 5% versus a 15% discount. And there has been much debate about the true accuracy of that one criterion.

Lorrie says “30% of all PowerSellers qualified for the 15% discount.” Another statistics question that I would love to have Lorrie answer for us — of those 30%, how many are bronze Powersellers, how many are gold, etc? I would guess that the vast marjority of those 30% are not high-volume Powersellers.

Powersellers who actually depend on eBay to make a living cannot lose money on shipping (unlike Richard who listed an item for priority mail shipping and was charging $4 for priority mail and, when asked, he said that he didn’t change it because he could afford to pay the 60 cents out of his pocket).

Powersellers who make a living on eBay (most of the higher volume Powersellers) soon realized that their S&H DSR would never be good enough to earn the 15% discount since they couldn’t afford to pay for shipping out of their pocket. On the three eBay seller IDs we manage, we actually ended up raising shipping rates to compensate for the 10% discount we were not going to receive. For item as Described we range from 4.9 to 5.0 on all accounts, for Communication we range from 4.8 to 5.0 on all accounts, on Shipping time we range from 4.8 to 4.9 on all accounts, but on S&H charges we range from 4.6 to 4.7 on all accounts.

We ship internationally on two of the three selling IDs. And so that means if we do not pay the EXTRA INTERNATIONAL insertion fee (coming soon!) to have our items appear on the Canadian, U.K. and Australian site BUT then we sell the item internationally through our own efforts, we wouldn’t receive the final value discount fee anyway no matter how hard we worked on our DSR rating.

So, it only made sense for us to raise our shipping rates in response to these two factors. eBay should really think carefully about their incentives because with the 4.8 DSR across the board requirement and the extra international insertion fee requirement to get a FVF credit for int’l transactions, eBay is actually providing a DISINCENTIVE for large Powersellers to lower shipping rates charged to buyers.

*******************
Lorrie states:

“3 goals for eBay:

1. We are going to make eBay easier and safer to use — for buyers and sellers.

2. We are going to improve the value and selection on eBay.

3. We are going to extend Paypal’s leadership position in online payments to creatae a safer buyer experience.”

QUESTION (1st goal): Just exactly how safe can eBay be for a seller when eBay does not prevent a problem buyer from creating a new ID time and time again without linking the new ID to the old ID?

QUESTION (2nd goal): Please explain how the “selection” of eBay improved when eBay removed all digitally delivered items? On one of my eBay selling IDs, I sold about $20,000 of physical goods a month that are delivered through carriers and only a few dollars a month of digitally delivered items. However, I awoke one morning to find that my few digitally delivered items had all been removed. I was in violation of a FUTURE policy that had not yet been announced. Three hours AFTER my items were removed, an announcement was made indicating that the new policy would be implemented in 7 days but, of course, my items were removed in advance of that policy announcement because they violated the FUTURE policy.

QUESTION (3rd goal): How do you think the buyers and sellers of eBay Australia are feeling right now about a safe eBay environment that will be offering Paypal only?

SandiOn April 23, 2008 at 7:54 pm Said:

@TheBrewsNews said:

“However, I awoke one morning to find that my few digitally delivered items had all been removed. I was in violation of a FUTURE policy that had not yet been announced. ”

Oh come on, that’s ebay at its finest. They have always had the one hand does this while the other hand does that. Someone needs to bring in some communication & teamwork consultants.

Like last year when they rolled out the restriction for non performance sellers while they were running specials to “bring us a new seller, we’ll pay you 5 bucks for intorducing yours friend to the fun of selling on ebay”

Or my personal favorite, cancelling and restricting designer purse listings randomly, but plastering designer purses on the front page telling people what great buys were inside on designer purses.

And to convince me the practice of non-communication, I got my invitation to the Annual Developer’s Conference being held in June in my email April 10th (you know 10 days after digital files and services were no longer allowed on ebay core) and one of the awards we all are suppose to be vying for is:

DSR Rockstar (improving customer service)

I guess Lorrie and team forgot to tell the developer team, or the developer team never explained what developers created to sell?

Patricia 1On April 23, 2008 at 8:18 pm Said:

Brews – I don’t suppose you got a refund since they took down your auctions before the new ruling was supposed to go into effect? Did they do this to everyone?

TheBrewsNewsOn April 23, 2008 at 9:42 pm Said:

Patricia, I don’t know about everyone else’s experience but when I called Powerseller Support as soon as I read the email notifying me of my policy violation, I spoke with a representative who was stunned because he knew nothing about the future unannounced policy. He then put me on hold for 32 minutes while he spoke with Trust and Safety. Evidently, no one had told Powerseller Customer Support about the new policy. What the representative finally told me was that other sellers items were being removed in advance of the new policy announcement but at the time I called, I was the first seller who called who sold primarily physical goods. Most sellers whose digitally delivered items were removed were sellers who sold ONLY digitally delivered items. My biggest complaint about the entire experience… as an eBay seller, it is difficult enough to keep pace with eBay’s constantly changing environment but to be asked to follow rules that have

************
Lorrie stated that one of eBay’s goals is to see that there is more of a selection of goods offered on eBay. She didn’t give specifics so I’ll have to make an assumption. I am assuming eBay intends on trying to achieve that goal by increasing the number of new sellers on the site. When I started selling on eBay 10 years ago, the eBay system was simple. Today, however, learning to sell on eBay for the first time can be overwhelming and it would be very difficult for a new seller to compete with existing Powersellers.

And since Lorrie relies heavily on reporting the numbers to make her points, I have reviewed one of Richard’s recent auctions (since he is a new eBay seller) to make my point:

Auction 320237308384 – SOLD for $1.50

eBay insertion fee – 35 cents
eBay final value fee – 13 cents
Paypal fee – 35 cents
Loss on shipping – 60 cents (charged $4.00 when the postage alone cost $4.60)
TOTAL costs $1.43

Net amount after fees 7 cents

Assuming Richard was given these items for free, he earned 7 cents for taking a picture, listing, and shipping the item as well as answering any emails related to the sale. Assuming Richard was able to quickly list and ship the item in a total of 30 minutes, he “earned” 14 cents an hour (again assuming the product was given to him for free).

Richard has not received DSR ratings for 10 items so we cannot see the kind of stars his buyers are leaving for him. Without good DSR ratings, Richard’s listings (if he had any up) would not earn “points” in the Best Match scoring system.

Given the effort it took for Richard to make a total of 7 cents (and 7 cents profit assumed the product was free to you), I wonder if Lorrie would really think it is worth it for a new seller to learn how to sell on eBay? If not, how does eBay intend on getting a greater selection of goods on the eBay site in the future? The devil is in the details.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn April 23, 2008 at 10:19 pm Said:

Actualy, DSR Watch shows the ratings even if 10 has not been achieved yet. This is Richard’s current status:

5.0 Item as described
4.8 Communication
4.8 Shipping Time
5.0 Shipping & Handling

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn April 23, 2008 at 10:27 pm Said:

… and not to pick on Richard, but mainly to help illustrate a point.

The trucker’s hat which did not sell recently cost him $0.55 in listing fees. So technically in the past 15 days, Richard actually lost $0.48 to eBay.

Of course that is just the numbers, it doesn’t take into consideration the time he spent taking pictures and creating listings for both items.

This is what I meant before when I said that users are actually paying eBay more in fees than they are getting for the items sold.

Patricia 1On April 23, 2008 at 11:14 pm Said:

So, they simply pulled the rug out from under you and any other sellers selling digital downloads….instead of having a regular starting date when you could no longer list such items. Is it any wonder nobody trusts ebay? …and since sellers are also buyers – there’s the drop in sales. Disillusioned sellers don’t list and they don’t buy either. Come on now, you don’t have to be a mental giant to realize we’re being kicked around at will. As for new sellers, they won’t last long. When they see the horrific amount of work, the cuckoo policies against sellers and the total lack of respect I think they’ll find other sites or other ways to make a dollar. I’m completely disillusioned after 10 long years. :-(

Patricia 1On April 23, 2008 at 11:18 pm Said:

crunchy – you gotta feel sorry for them. They just don’t realize the fees. I won’t list anything less then 7.95 – I can’t make a profit for less what with all the fees and the shipping rates and the time I put into making the item. Most of my small baseball card sized paintings used to cost me 73 cents to ship and now cost 1.48! If you don’t figure all the fees in you can well end up paying ebay and the post office all your profit. New sellers don’t realize this until they get a good taste of it.

mi2highOn April 23, 2008 at 11:41 pm Said:

3. We’ve already talked about this on Ink, but Lorrie confirmed that PowerSellers’ shipping cost DSRs for cross-border trades are only .02 points lower than domestic.

Does this mean that ebay will allow sellers that DO cross-border trading will get a handicap?

It would be best to compare sellers peer-peer as designed.

To me it shows that those of us that do the cross-border trading are the actual cream of the crop.
Those numbers prove it, yet we are punished and do not receive the higher discount.

I would appreciate it if this would get some further consideration to make it peer-peer, fair is fair.

PermacrisisOn April 24, 2008 at 3:58 am Said:

A few comments about this new, improved ‘eBain’.

You’ve got sellers hopping mad with Norrington’s “our buyers” verbiage. Remember, knicknacks and rare items brought the buyers here in the first place, and here ebay is now prying those buyers away with the DSR crowbar.

One of a kind items cannot be funneled into a product flow like dropshipped or cataloged items, as they must be carefully packed (and oftentimes economically shipped, due to weight constraints). So naturally those items will achieve lower DSR’s, in diametric opposition to ebay’s original purpose. A large chunk of the population still believes you go to ebay for those items. That is becoming less and less the case… all you hear during downturns is niche, niche niche but these folks are fervently dismantling the biggest niche in Western civilization. Sad… :-(

The fact is, ebay couldn’t source unique / rare / unusual items on its own if it tried… not even if it threw several hundred thousand dollars at the problem. Ebay execs harp on the ‘long tail’ items in press releases, but in reality can’t even properly categorize let alone source them. That puts those items squarely in the province of the small seller, who’s presently being stomped like a grape.

In Donahoe’s 2002 paper entitled “The Last Legacy of the Dotcom Era” he describes the corporate venturing strategy he is currently employing on ebay for what it is: a huge gamble, requiring an exit strategy should it fail. This paper is very prescient– it even names Ebay as one especially low-hanging fruit.

So far, JD has followed his map chapter and verse. It would appear wrecking ebay’s auction functionality is his lifetime ambition.

Unfortunately Donahoe has yet to outline the exit strategy he himself was a proponent of. He had better hope Dimitar Slavov doesn’t write it for him, in the form of Auction Functionality added to eCrater. If that happens, ebay needn’t bother spinning auctions off. “Their buyers” will instantly vaporize.

It’s the ITEMS, stupid.

oh_puhl_eezeOn April 24, 2008 at 6:32 am Said:

What Permacrisis said!

I am one of those small volume sellers of hard to find and high value antiques and collectibles. I registered with eBay in 1999. Now I am leaving; I will not come back. It’s not just me; the majority of all the dealers in my area (Upstate NY, which is prime hunting ground for good antiques) have not one good thing to say about eBay. We’re now selling at local auction houses, other websites and Craigslist.

And not only will I never sell here again; I will never buy here again either. I have no idea how much I’ve spent over the years, but eBay was the first place I shopped for anything I needed: baby clothes, plants, jewelry, gifts, and so on. No more. eBay doesn’t deserve my money.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn April 24, 2008 at 7:41 am Said:

Patricia, your right. Some people sell on eBay as a virtual garage sale, some sell things to help pay for daycare costs, or to save up for the family vacation. How can they accomplish any of those goals when they are actually paying more money to eBay and PayPal than they take home in profit? Not to mention all the effort in taking pictures, writing descriptions, answering potential buyer questions quickly, and charging shipping costs equal to professional sellers, who have access to discount shipping supplies

eBay is definitely changing into average joe unfriendly.

The funny thing is that I occasionally go to garage sales – not to resell findings on eBay, but just personal pleasure. I see countless garage sales pricing their items according to completed listings on eBay.

It takes a lot of effort to not go up to the owner and say, “do you have any idea what is involved with selling on eBay to justify the price those sellers charge there?” Of course, I never do this. I simply smile, shake my head, and walk away.

Patricia 1On April 24, 2008 at 8:19 am Said:

Yes crunchy people just do not know what’s involved and when they find out, most say “oh, I don’t want to bother with all that.” The reality of what we go thru quickly takes the “fun” quotient right out of it. With the new policies all aimed at even more obstacles in a sellers path future sellers won’t be all that easy to come by. I have no idea what ebay’s ultimate goal is but if it encompasses small sellers in any way – then I suggest they soften up some because right now they are a definite turn-off for anyone who may be thinking of selling on ebay. Even now in the past few days I’ve noticed a sharp increase in listings due to the 10 cent listing fees for powersellers only – and now the sharp fall in listings as listings end and are not being relisted. Sellers are definitely disgusted to the point where ebay can’t keep listings up without specials and gimmicks. That’s tells me there’s big trouble dead ahead! There’s no real traffic on the site either. I have a 20.00 feature plus listing that got maybe 5 views all day yesterday! Others are reporting the same. (shrug)

MistyOn April 24, 2008 at 8:32 am Said:

@ Crunchy
Not to get off topic but I can not help but chuckle to myself at your garage sale analogy, I remember before eBay existed going to such garage sales where you would hear them discussing antique shop prices and on a few occasions when I inquired about an item their reply was ohhhh no as a dealer will be along any time and snap it up for a good price. I like you would smile and walk away shaking my head… on a few occasions I would hand them my business card to my antique shop before walking away just in case that dealer never showed up.

Patricia 1On April 24, 2008 at 8:42 am Said:

Sorry, I meant @crunchy and not

“Yes crunchy people just do not know what’s involved “

TheBrewsNewsOn April 24, 2008 at 8:59 am Said:

I am feeling really safe right now…….

Date of eBay sale – January 12th
Item was shipped immediately with delivery confirmation. The address provided was a confirmed shipping address and was eligible for seller protection.

Buyer claimed item itself was just fine (an electronic item) but the packaging (plastic) the item arrived in was not perfect and because the buyer wanted to store the item in the original packaging they were unhappy. No problems, we said, we’ll send you a prepaid postage label and have you return the item for a full refund. Buyer grudgingly agreed although what he really wanted was for us to provide a partial refund and for him to keep the item. We sent a prepaid label and informed the seller that they must ship within 7 days and to let us know when the item was back in route to us. No response. We email at the end of 7 days and notify the buyer that on day 10 we MUST have notification of return shipment or we have to cancel the prepaid label or we lose the postage. No response.

February 29th – paypal notifies us that a chargeback was filed.
We respond with all relevant information including proof of delivery.

March 14th – paypal notes that they lose the dispute.

March 24th – we are sent an email from paypal notifying us that they lost the chargeback dispute and thus we are out both the money ( $ 65.95 ) and the product.

We call Paypal to find out how the customer can keep the product AND have his money returned when we followed all the paypal seller protection rules and even went above and beyond in our offer to pay for return shipping. Paypal’s response is that the buyer told the credit card company that they were not given return instructions and thus couldn’t return the product. Excuse me? Our return address was on the original shipping label, we provided a prepaid return label AND Paypal has our address. So why did Paypal not respond to the credit card company and say “Hey, here is the seller’s address you can return the item to” since Paypal has my address.

Yes, I am sure the Australians are looking forward to an “All-Paypal” marketplace which will be much safer.

TheBrewsNewsOn April 24, 2008 at 9:13 am Said:

Oops! The dates are April 14th and April 24th rather than March. I’m so busy multi-tasking right now that I typed in March instead of April. The days and months pass so quickly that most of the time I’m not even sure what day or month it is!

Patricia 1On April 24, 2008 at 9:32 am Said:

Well…..so much for Paypal protection. Do you have no right at all to contact the credit card company directly? Under the circumstances I think I would email the customer and tell them since they have their money back you consider the item stolen and will report them to their local police dept.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn April 24, 2008 at 9:42 am Said:

Richard,

This would probably be a very good time to bring in someone from PayPal to address this issue.

I’ve only had two charge back ever attempted by customers on Amazon, and neither buyer won.

When I spoke to Amazon’s customer service I was told that even if Amazon lost a dispute with the credit card company, Amazon would take the lose, and allow me to keep my money, since I did everything Amazon requires of me as a seller on their site.

That is how a service and site earns the respect of its users.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn April 24, 2008 at 10:31 am Said:

@ Richard,

Just to clarify, when I wrote “That is how a service and site earns the respect of its users.” I was referring to PayPal and eBay – not you.

I can clearly see that you are doing everything within your power to make sure these issues are being brought to the powers that be. I just wanted to make sure you knew that was not a comment against you or this blog site. :)

TheBrewsNewsOn April 24, 2008 at 10:33 am Said:

Richard, I would be more than happy to provide you with the Chargeback Case number and the name of the Paypal representative that I spoke with today (since the email was just sent today).

Unfortunately, the “scenario” I presented is not unusual. I only wish that it were. My intent was to give a SPECIFIC example of a CURRENT problem (since the email I received was sent today notifying me that the chargeback was lost, I feel that qualifies as being a current problem even though the chargeback was filed almost 2 months ago). There are thousands of eBay sellers who could give you similiar-type examples and I myself could fill a book about eBay injustices. We sellers are a “passionate” bunch but we have very real FACTUAL reasons to feel frustrated and angry.

We don’t want to hear general overviews of how eBay intends on making the marketplace safe or fun or anything else. We want specifics and more than anything else, WE WANT ACTION! We want eBay and Paypal to roll up their sleeves and do some of the hard work rather than put their head in the sand and point the finger at the sellers.

The really sad thing is that many eBay sellers have some amazingly spot-on ideas about how to “fix” the eBay marketplace but nobody at eBay is listening.

TWOn April 24, 2008 at 11:22 am Said:

THEBREWSNEWS said…

“The really sad thing is that many eBay sellers have some amazingly spot-on ideas about how to “fix” the eBay marketplace but nobody at eBay is listening.”

This has been the number one complaint I have about eBay, especially of late. Supposedly eBay wants to listen but so far I have seen very little evidence of that.

Even if you can rectify THEBREWSNEWS problems, why should the problem have to be brought up on a blog before it gets the proper attention? It’s the typical customer service problem we see day in and day out.

Hello … sellers are leaving and we have to believe that is what eBay wants, for the small seller to leave. Does eBay care? It appears not!

DonOn April 24, 2008 at 11:28 am Said:

Hi,

I’m not commenting on DSR’s feedback or charge backs. I think you know how most sellers feel about that.

My major concern is that eBay may cancel a listing or suspend an account an account at any time without warning then make it darn near impossible to have the matter addressed in a timely manner.

I would be happy to sell exclusively on eBay if I felt confident that my listings would be secure. Unfortunately I never know if my listings will still be there when I boot up my computer the next morning. As it is I maintain sites with other people because I never know when the axe may fall.

If you can communicate that concern to the powers that be it would be appreciated.

Don

TheBrewsNewsOn April 24, 2008 at 11:50 am Said:

TW, I am certainly not asking Richard to try and solve my Paypal problem. I just offered to provide the specific details so that he could verify the FACTS. Anyone can say anything on a blog but I can back up what I am saying with real facts.

Frankly, I wrote off the $65.95 two months ago when the chargeback dispute was filed because I had no faith that Paypal would fight on my behalf.

PermacrisisOn April 24, 2008 at 12:04 pm Said:

eBay was a great idea and it was an idea that worked. The current infatuation with retail is somewhat justified although it is out of sync with the current recession, I mean who wants a new ANYTHING right now? Plus, how can you interpret a test result whose feedback loop affects its own outcome?

eBay would have you believe that auction format has gone out of style, that one-offs and uniques are out of demand, and that they were part of the internet bubble.

Baloney, if Yahoo reboots or Goog starts up an auction house you watch how quickly ebay sues them– they will, as usual, want it both ways.

Only this time, they have a weapon: I’m afraid now that they own the mercxchange patents, all the other auction sites are in real trouble. If any of them ramp up, you just watch– ebay will harangue them with the patents and try to blow them back to the stone age. And it’s typical of their post-2006, slash-and-burn mentality… deny ground you’ve abandoned to any one else who may do it better.

Those are my fears– I hope I’m just a froot loop.

MI2HIGHOn April 24, 2008 at 2:03 pm Said:

OT-Question.
New to blogs am I
I am wondering why some of the user names are in black and some in red?
Does it mean something?

TWOn April 24, 2008 at 3:25 pm Said:

TheBrewsNews … “TW, I am certainly not asking Richard to try and solve my Paypal problem. I just offered to provide the specific details so that he could verify the FACTS. Anyone can say anything on a blog but I can back up what I am saying with real facts.”

I was not insinuating that you were asking anything of Richard but merely pointing out a consistent failure of the system.

Too many times I have seen problems brought to the boards, especially the PayPal board, that could not be solved through normal CS channels but were taken care of once made “public”. I do not feel this is the way CS should work.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn April 24, 2008 at 3:28 pm Said:

@ Richard

Can you please give us some examples of “… I’ve already encountered my fair share of issues I’d like to get answers on.”?

I would really like to know. I think I would find it comforting (as weird as that sounds) that someone who is employed by eBay is dealing with the same frustrations other users are, and validation that are experiences are real.

@ Brews

I think verifiable situations like yours are exactly the type that Richard needs to know about. That way their can be no confusion about what really happened. eBay department representatives will have to answer to the facts, rather than pawn it off as a fluke, or “that never happens, or “the person was misinformed”.

DaveyOn April 24, 2008 at 3:30 pm Said:

@Richard

I’m awaiting the Customer Service blog with bated breath, as I think this is eBay’s root achilles heel with trust and everything else. I believe that eBay’s two goals of a self-service venue and control of the site are mutually exclusive and clash heavily. As noted earlier, I took note of how Lorrie’s speech noted that sellers who did not put customer service as prime importance were not welcome on eBay–an interesting conundrum as eBay sells services to me via the marketplaces yet is the antithesis of customer service.

I will also support Don’s contention that surprise listing takedowns are a great source of irritation and they expose a seller to whole the customer service failure again. I’ve had a listing taken down (mentioned in another thread) not because it violated a policy, but because it was read in a millisecond and a mistake was made based on a keyword taken out of context. First I endured the boilerplate bot-o-matic for a couple rounds, getting different policy quotes I had “violated.” Then, when I finally got a human, they agreed that I did not do what I was accused of, but “often times we take down listings anyway that we might [mis]read this way.” No admission and correction of a mistake. Lots of apologies, though. eBay got zero stars for that effort.

I compare T&S’s attitude to a group of vigilantes going into the bad part of town and gunning down anyone showing a tatoo. “Well, we might have made some mistakes, but hey, we certainly got a couple bad guys too.”

Any other business that wants to keep their customers considers customer loyalty and history, and plays on that when nurturing the relationship. eBay doesn’t. Not only that, they appear clueless that this is killing their reputation more than anything else!

If I’d seen good customer service in action, I might actually have confidence in some of eBay’s promises surrounding these changes. I wouldn’t miss giving negative feedback that much (I’ve only left 3 in 2500 transactions), but I do miss not seeing bad buyers in advance through their feedback, as I have no confidence eBay will protect me.

DaveyOn April 24, 2008 at 3:39 pm Said:

@Crunchy

“eBay department representatives will have to answer to the facts, rather than pawn it off as a fluke, or “that never happens, or “the person was misinformed”.”

You forgot the official terminology for these events that always go against the buyer’s favor–”a glitch.”

I know many of us could supply factual cases of what we talk about. My listing takedown would be primo, but I trust this blog will take some time to accomplish its purpose and could get overwhelmed with facts.

We need a marketplace that is level, fair, stable, and healthy. I think we all agree on that. Unfortunately I think we are all pawns in an experiment that will some time down the road be, like New Coke–a freshman study in how data is misinterpreted/how not to run a business/how to treat your customers.

Patricia 1On April 24, 2008 at 3:39 pm Said:

Amen to that! No matter what you tell them or how you explain it…they continue to kick and bruise sellers as though they can easily be replaced…..that time is coming to and end, ebay. You’re reputation is becoming legend and its not on the good side!

DaveyOn April 24, 2008 at 3:47 pm Said:

One last thought for now…

Wouldn’t it be great if you went to one of these keynote things and the presenter didn’t talk about grandiose plans or how they bought their shoes on eBay before jetting off somewhere else, but rather sat down and laid out goals for the site, asked questions of the audience, then listened and took notes?

Seems to me that looking back in history, this is how some kings kept their thrones (and heads) from restless serfs–having audience days to address general injustices.

That happened to me once when at an Intel Developer’s Forum. It greatly changed my opinion of the top management at that time.

implogOn April 24, 2008 at 5:09 pm Said:

Richard:

What answer did Lorrie give when you asked her my question about her policy statement on negs left for sellers in Unpaid Item Disputes, specifically how can a neg given by a buyer to a seller after the seller files an Unpaid Item Dispute be justifiable if the buyer claims “seller non-performance” or “item condition” for an item never sent by the seller and never seen by the buyer?

Thanks in advance.

JJHOn April 24, 2008 at 5:44 pm Said:

@Richard: “I don’t know how many attendees actually read this blog (it’s early days after all) but if they are reading, it would be nice for them to chime in on what they saw.”

Yes, that WOULD be nice. At least it would be some sort of a clue that all this passionate posting is being read. But I’m sorry if I’m sounding cynical, but all this posting isn’t going to do one iota to change anything. These plans are cast in stone, and really we are all just “pissing in the wind” so to speak (I hope that’s acceptable). I don’t for a minute believe that anything discussed in this blog will change any of ebaY’s direction. Sorry, it’s just how I feel.

To my knowledge two eBay employees with “clout” have posted here. The first was that communications guy (forget his name). What happened? He got shouted down, and he left. The second was Griff, he got shouted down and he left.

The fact that they left, and don’t stay to counter the argument is because nothing we say will change them. They must also feel that “why should I even bother, they don’t believe me anyway”.

But wouldn’t it be interesting if Donohue had the guts to post here and take on some of the really hard questions in a honest and non-corporate speak way and had the courage to stay and take the heat. Won’t happen though, he’s a busy man, and Lorrie is too busy buying shoes. At my place of business ebaY is blocked, I guess at yours it’s OK to waste time browsing ebaY.

ebaY must be a hard company to work at, especially in the communications area. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, I couldn’t work at a company that was so widely hated and constantly had bile spewed at it in every conceivable forum. My skin’s not that thick. I’m sure by now you ought to be feeling the extreme frustration yourself that’s coming from the outside. I imagine it’s the same at Microsoft, but I think your company is more widely despised. Sorry.

NoblespiritOn April 25, 2008 at 7:42 am Said:

PESA has held 12 major Summits and events across the United States and Australia since 2004. For the ECMTA, this was our coming out party with PESA. I have personally been to 2 eBay eCommerce Forums for its professional sellers and every eBay Live except for one as both a participant or exhibitor of some kind.

I have witnessed the full spectrum of private and public interaction between eBay’s top executives, managers and staff with a broad strata of eBay sellers from casual eBay sellers to mult-national conglomerates who sell on eBay.

The recent changes which were introduced to the community at the last eCommerce Forum that took place recently in January, was met with some recognition of the bold steps being taken; however, much typical anxiety and the residual frustration, we as sellers, have historically come to expect at all these meetings.

The eBay session, that took place in room B, (a rather large room) just after the keynote was full.

Lorie sat on a panel. Along with her staff, she answered long ques of questions with a clarity and sincerity that was much appreciated by everyone in the room.

I have never seen so many sellers leave an eBay session so well attended, so dynamic, so incredibly informative and so positive.

eBay made notes to take back with them. And I believe they mean to act on them. I believe we will see the fruits of the exchange that took place in that room materially and expeditiously.

We, as sellers (eBay’s customers), have clearly moved to the next level in our relationship with eBay. There is clearly a new eBay corporate culture beginning to take shape. Certainly there are difficult roads to navigate that lie ahead, hard questions to which it will take some considerable effort to find the answers.

I believe that the faces I saw leaving that room now know, for the first time, that we have a meaningful framework within which to construct the solutions. Keep the questions coming and we will keep that framework alive and well!

Regards,

Joe Cortese
Founder/Chairman