Lorrie Norrington Keynote at eCommerce Summit

implogOn 04.23.2008 at 1:39 pm Said:

Richard

Please

Ask her how a buyer can be dissatisfied with an item they never received. Sellers DO NOT send items to buyers who do not pay.

A buyer saying they are dissatisfied with an item never paid for and never sent is as nonsensical as a buyer replying “Red Beans and Rice are Awfully Nice.” to an Unpaid Item Dispute.

Please help her understand this.

~~~~
Below copied from her PESA presentation.

“The first is that we will remove negative and neutral
feedback left for you – retroactively – when a buyer is unresponsive to an unpaid item claim or if they respond to the claim without expressing dissatisfaction with the item or your performance.”

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 04.23.2008 at 3:11 pm Said:

I would also like to know how eBay is going to prevent buyers who have been blocked from creating new ids to get around the block.

If buyers know sellers can block them based on an UPI, what will prevent these buyers from creating new throw away ids to continue this behavior under. This is just one of the current loopholes that scamming buyers can exploit.

JJHOn 04.23.2008 at 3:17 pm Said:

“feedback left for sellers will be removed – retroactively – when a buyer is unresponsive to an unpaid item claim or if they respond to the claim without expressing dissatisfaction with the item or your performance”

What don’t they understand? This makes no sense. I would never ship the item if I wasn’t paid, so how can they claim dissatisfaction? D’oh!

Patricia 1On 04.23.2008 at 3:23 pm Said:

“What don’t they understand? This makes no sense. I would never ship the item if I wasn’t paid, so how can they claim dissatisfaction? D’oh!”

Under certain circumstances they will hold back your Paypal payment 21 days….you are, of course, expected to ship the item and patiently wait for your buyer to graciously leave you feedback in order to get your money a bit earlier than that. (Lots of expletives here). My momma didn’t raise no fools. Nothing ever leaves here that hasn’t been paid for…period! Get used to that ebay cause you’re going to hear it from a lot of sellers.

implogOn 04.23.2008 at 3:33 pm Said:

Ms. Norrington said;

“For sellers, we believe, this is much less of an issue, because your primary concern is, and should be, whether you are paid for your merchandise. But because you don’t ship until you have been paid, …”

The above quote from her presentation makes it seem as if she DOES understand the seller/buyer process. Sellers do not ship until paid. Yet she also says in her presentation;

“The first is that we will remove negative and neutral
feedback left for you – retroactively – when a buyer is unresponsive to an unpaid item claim or if they respond to the claim without expressing dissatisfaction with the item or your performance.”

?????????????????

If the seller does not send the item due to non-payment as Ms.Norrington acknowledges in the first quote, how in the name of red beans and rice can eBay allow a non-paying buyer to leave a negative against a seller due to “dissatisfaction with the item” if the item is never sent as she allows in the second quote?

Richard — take Ms. Norrington to Felix’s. Buy her a dozen on the half shell. Get her a cup of decaf so she won’t get even more “excited” and ask her to explain this conundrum. Expense it.

Then,

laissez les bons temps rouler!

implogOn 04.23.2008 at 3:37 pm Said:

It just hit me.

Maybe there is no way to say “I/we screwed up” in Disruptionese.

That would explain a lot.

Patricia 1On 04.23.2008 at 4:18 pm Said:

Hmmm…..you may have a point there. I sure do wish that once and for all they would realize that sellers do NOT trust them. They haven’t had much trust in Ebay management in years. Ebay hasn’t earned trust from sellers. I’m not saying that to be mean…just speaking honestly. There is going to be one heck of a fight if they start trying to hold paypal payments for any reason. When I’m paid, the first thing I do is go to Paypal and check to see if it has been added to my account…then and only then do I ship the item out. I have done business with reputable companies that I trust and shipped first and waited 30 days for payment. I do that now with the distributor who buys my lace pattern books for resale….yet I wouldn’t dream of doing it with ebay. Sorry.

MechelleOn 04.23.2008 at 4:25 pm Said:

I hear you on the paypal holds- there is no way I would ever ship without payment first. I’ll simply contact the buyer explain eBay/PayPal’s theft of her/his payment and that unfortunately we will not be able to complete the transaction do to non-payment. Of course offer a mutual to not complete and then my would be customer can take the issue up with the thieves herself.

I would rather take a hit on my feedback than a loss on my money.

they are flat out insane

and I sell low dollar products anyone selling expensive products would be stupid to ship the item.

MechelleOn 04.23.2008 at 5:11 pm Said:

Norrington

“We’ve already talked about this on Ink, but Lorrie confirmed that PowerSellers’ shipping cost DSRs for cross-border trades are only .02 points lower than domestic.”

Well gee, do you think .02 points can affect the DSR scores?? Yeah if you have enough of them

“First, sellers can block buyers who have had more than one Unpaid Item strike in the past 12 months”

I want to block anyone with even one unpaid item- I shouldn’t have to do business with someone who even on 1 occasion failed to follow through on their commitment. My item being shelved for 15 days, because someone lacks integrity is outrageous, and I prefer not to have that risk when the individual has already demonstrated their lack of integrity in the past 12 months.

“Second, beginning in May, sellers will be able to block buyers who have been reported by other sellers for policy violations like Feedback extortion or Feedback abuse.”

Well, just how am I supposed to know if a buyer has an out of the sellers view eBay profile reflecting their deviant behavior? Why are these people still allowed in the marketplace at all? Shouldn’t they be suspended? Isn’t that what an ethical company would do to protect their customers?

“The first is that negative and neutral feedback left for sellers will be removed – retroactively – when a buyer is unresponsive to an unpaid item claim or if they respond to the claim without expressing dissatisfaction with the item or your performance (this is aimed at resolving the situation where a buyer responds to the UPI claim but the response is nonsense).”

Well, I haven’t looked for the info lately, but the last time I read eBay recommends that UPI buyers respond to the dispute even if it just to say they are not paying- anything say anything- so they are still able to leave feedback. There is just no way to view this as anything other than villainous behavior on eBay’s part. To actually encourage members who are deviant to say whatever so they still have the opportunity to leave feedback- what is wrong with you people? If someone violates eBay’s TOS they should have nothing but a strike leading to indefinite suspension- not the right to negatively affect my feedback on top of their causing my item not to be listed for 15 days. I swear you people are demented.

“Secondly, negative or neutral feedback left by buyers who have been suspended from our marketplace for Feedback Extortion or other policy violations, will also be removed.”

What other violations?- do you people know how to use concrete examples for anything? Words are simply that - the reality is we have no information regarding any member’s deviant profile because eBay hides it behind “privacy rights”. What a joke!

Wake up people- we are not as stupid as you like to imagine- or maybe it’s you who are stupid and we just give you to much credit.

DaveyOn 04.23.2008 at 5:26 pm Said:

Four comments on Ms. Norrington’s speech:

First, does she realize how incredibly terrible eBay’s customer support and T&S are? I’d like to see responsibility for this addressed before I hear ANY reassurances of how eBay will protect me as a seller. I’ve seen none to-date, although I’ve experienced continuous reasons not to trust. She says, “As I said before, sellers who do not make customer service a priority make it difficult for everyone and are not
welcome on eBay.” Expanding the word “seller” to eBay as an entity selling a service to me, this statement means that eBay is not welcome on their own venue, due to their zero star customer service.

Second, on cross-border DSRs, I believe her data is grossly defective based on my own experience. This data also needs explanation as to the type and price of goods included in the data, and across how many sellers the data was taken. If I ship expensive items using Express Mail International, where the shipping price is small compared to the item, I will get a whole different set of data than if I try shipping a $20 item requiring Express Mail International. Another instance of eBay potentially misinterpreting data to their own favor. And, if I don’t ship using expensive, tracked methods, how much related seller pain is there because SPP cannot be obtained?

I’d really like to hear, face-to-face, an eBay exec explain why Shipping Time is not an automatic DSR between payment clearance and shipper acceptance. This should be this way across the board, which would be fairer than sujective measurement.

Third, there was the nauseous statement: “We lowered insertion fees and adjusted final value fees, creating a structure that shifts much more of the risk of listing an item onto eBay.” All I know as a seller is that they shifted the risk of low sell-through listers onto my back, as a high sellthrough lister!!! I’s like to finally see honesty in that the word “adjusted” would be changed to “raised.” This use of weasel wording opens the wounds afresh every time sellers hear it.

Fourth, eBay still has an identity problem relative to customers as shown in this statement: “Today, everyone at eBay recognizes that we have to fight hard each and every day to win your business because you – along with our buyers – are our customers.” Buyers are not eBay’s buyers, they are the sellers’ buyers!! Buyers are not eBay’s customers, sellers are!! Why is that so hard to understand for eBay management???

Fifth is this little gem: “In plain English, Detailed Seller Ratings are a way for us to measure buyer satisfaction on eBay” Plain English??? How ironic. Why are there two definitions of a satisfactory performance? It is definitely not plain English.

Finally, I like how many times Lorrie uses phrases like “straight up,” “blunt,” and other gems which convey transparency, as there is none. It doesn’t take much effort to see through the smokescreen.

eBay, get your own house in order first, then talk to your sellers about theirs.

KarenOn 04.23.2008 at 5:42 pm Said:

In reference to Norrington’s comment in 4. Two new buyer requirements were introduced today to further promote seller protection. First, sellers can block buyers who have had more than one Unpaid Item strike in the past 12 months (previously it was restricted to more than one UPI strike in the last 30 days).

I’ve been on the site and and wanted to active this in my buyer requirements but this is not the case. It is still showing the 30 day restriction only.

Anyone know anything more about this? The one thing I’ve learned is that I can’t trust what eBay says which is sad.

CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 04.23.2008 at 5:49 pm Said:

@ Richard

Can you please have this statement clarified?

“Second, beginning in May, sellers will be able to block buyers who have been reported by other sellers for policy violations like Feedback extortion or Feedback abuse.”

Does that mean the buyer is blocked the instant the seller makes a report, or after eBay has taken its time determining if the report is valid or not?

When a seller leaves a Neg it appears instantly, so that other sellers are immediately aware of the situation. Does eBay plan to have the block effective immediately upon the report’s submission?

DaveyOn 04.23.2008 at 6:22 pm Said:

@Richard

“We’ve already talked about this on Ink, but Lorrie confirmed that PowerSellers’ shipping cost DSRs for cross-border trades are only .02 points lower than domestic.”

Being that you used the word “confirmed” above, could you obtain and tell us the characteristics of the data set used to make Ms. Norrington’s statement? Specifically:

1. What countries were the cross-border sales used made to (country is VERY important)?

2. What was the average price per item sold?

3. What was the breakdown of the shipping method(s) used in the trades that were tracked?

All of these factors can grossly distort both shipping DSRs. It is troubling that rather than making an effort to make these DSRs fair, eBay is using what could be grossly defective data to justify yet another decision.

permacrisisOn 04.23.2008 at 6:29 pm Said:

Just verify everybody’s drivers licenses, like Yahoo Auctions did. What’s the problem?

Suppose your 85 million users really wind up being only 30 million actual people. So what? That would in essence increase how much each spent, making them a more valuable asset than previously supposed. I don’t see the big deal, what is ebay so scared of?

Get a real head count. Verify everybody. Now see? That wasn’t so bad.

implogOn 04.23.2008 at 6:43 pm Said:

Ms. Norrington:

We’d like to help you learn to help yourself. Look around you. All you see are sympathetic eyes.

Here’s to you Ms. Norrington!