Friday, April 11th, 2008
PeSA / ECMTA Best Practices “Improving Your eBay DSRs”
I realize I run the risk of turning this blog into a Marketplaces-only forum rather than an all-encompassing discussion hub for all things “Inc”, but I am joining Lorrie Norrington and the team down at the 2008 Spring eCommerce Summit in New Orleans later this month so I thought it would be a good idea for me to sit in on the PeSA / ECMTA Best Practices conference call yesterday afternoon. The topic of discussion was “Improving Your eBay DSR” and the call was hosted by Brandon Dupsky, managing director of eCommerce Markets for the E-Commerce Merchants Trade Association (ECMTA).
The call was interesting in that it didn’t focus on the perceived benefits or drawbacks to the Detailed Seller Rating (DSR) system, rather it focused on the challenges sellers face with DSRs and how to implement some best practices around that. It seemed to go beyond DSR 101 (one participant at the end of the call indicated that she found it one of the more worthwhile roundtable calls she had attended).
After Brandon provided a brief overview of what DSRs are and why they’re important he jumped into the meat of the presentation. He cited three key challenges that sellers face with DSRs:
1. Mixed messages from eBay. There is a message to buyers that states that 4.0 should be applied to an experience in which there was an “accurate” description; they were “satisfied” with communication; shipping was “quick” and S&H was “reasonable”. However, the message to the seller is that 4.0 means you can’t qualify for PowerSeller status; you don’t get good seller status; you could drop down into the bottom 1% in your category and receive seller restrictions.
2. A mixed usage of whole numbers and fractions with regard to scores. In other words, a buyer can only leave a 1, 2,3 4, or 5 feedback score and as a result, sellers are “being punished” with fractional scores of 4.0, 4.4, 4.6, 4.8.
3. Good DSR scores have less of an impact on sellers than bad DSR scores. A single 5-star DSR will not help the overall average as much as a single 1-star DSR will hurt the overall average.
The proceeding ways in which it was suggested sellers could ensure that they get the best DSRs possible all had an underlying theme. Educating the buyer with impeccable messaging and setting their expectations from the beginning seemed to be the biggest call to action to sellers (which echoed a Chatter Blog post back in February). Based on presentations and discussions I’ve seen and heard internally, that seems to be the call to action for the Marketplaces team too. Yes, the changes we’ve seen come out over the past few months are focused on providing the best overall experience for the buyer on eBay but it is the education and the ability to meet and beat the expectations of the buyer that will result in optimal DSRs.
There were a number of simple tricks and tools discussed on the call. For example, emphasizing 5-Star service in every step of communication to the buyer or potential buyer. Another was setting expectations and then beating them (whether it be regarding shipping cost, time or description of item).
The number one question that seemed to be asked throughout the presentation was “What are you doing to keep your customer happy?”
For those of you still on the fence about attending the conference later this month, the ECMTA has put together this handy-dandy Top 10 Reasons to attend. If you are heading down there, feel free to email me because I’d love to take the opportunity to meet as many people as I can in person.
Cheers,
RBH
Tagged: best practices, brandon+dupsky, chatter, chatter blog, dsr, ebay, ecmta, ecommerce, lorrie+norrington, marketplaces, pesa, rating, trade show
NoblespiritOn 04.19.2008 at 6:04 am Said:
Hello crunchypostinggoodness,
YOUR QUOTE: “A seller can have the very best reputation and still not sell as well as they could on eBay for no other reason than a lot of buyers do not trust eBay. My website analytics show that a considerable amount of the internet searches which find my website purposely minus the word “eBay” from the search results. That tells me, as a seller, that my buyers do not trust eBay, even though they can purchase the items I sell cheaper there. My buyers would rather pay more money to deal with my established reputation as a professional seller, than deal with those they find on eBay.”
I think we’re both saying the same thing in different ways. It is the role of both the marketplace and its seller partner to both create a safe trading environment and market their brand message as effectively as possible. When either faulters to any degree, it places an additional burden on the other. However, they both lose. That balance is critical. If a buyer trusts the marketplace and not the seller, they both lose. If a buyer trusts the seller and not the marketplace, they both lose again. The point I was trying to make earlier, is that our (Noblespirit)repeat and loyal customers have pulled us through the friction and disadvantages we are experiencing on eBay as a result of best match and other functionality. They search us out by brand name, because they know what to expect form us in terms of product, service and reliability. Our reputation stands for something. Our analytics show little or no keyword searchs. I find that as amazing as you do about your analytics.
Yes, you describe a situation that I hear many times a day among a great diversity of sellers in the organization. Sellers are getting a better price for the exact same product anywhere other than eBay. That tells me it’s more than just a marketplace trust issue. The entire balance is wrong, sellers are constrained and disadvantaged. Not until those specific dynamics are realigned, rebalanced will sellers begin to experience the excitement and prices of an eBay that once was. I hope that’s what we’re moving back to, because a mere shopping experience isn’t going to be enough, no matter how good or efficient. eBay has a unique competitive advantage and it is presently being underutilized, if for no other reason than serious dedicated sellers like you, are being distanced when they should be embraced. Nonetheless, I do believe eBay is beginning to realize the extent of this situation and measure of the opportunity.
I can see you obviously care, I can sense your frustration and I applaud your commitment to remain engaged enough to influence and evoke positive change. I strongly encourage you to continue. I advise you don’t try to do it alone.
———
Hello Davey,
YOUR QUOTE: “Let me come right out and ask–if you have been working on bringing input to eBay for 4 years, what is any commitment on their part to actually listen to PESA as a mouthpiece? What influence did PESA wield on the recent policy changes, if any?”
On Wednesday, at our Summit in New Orleans 19 decision making eBay executives will accompany Lori Norrington, eBay’s President as she keynotes an audience of over 500 of eBay’s sellers (top sellers and casual sellers), global media, Wall Street Analysts and a host of service providers and other marketplace executives from Microsoft, Amazon, Google, etc. Among that contingent will be Matt Halperin, head of a 1200 staffed Trust and Safety, Jeff King, Artichetct of Finding (Best Match, etc). I would say that is a serious undertaking by eBay to listen to and work with the community. Over the last 4 years we’ve had 12 major Summit and other events at which our collective voice has been heard in every mainstream media round the world. At this point every serious eBay investor knows who PESA is and comes directly to PESA when they want to know anything about eBay that relates to the seller’s perspective.
Starting with huge strides we made during the propensity of second chance offer scams that nearly devestated this marketplace, PESA has brought enormous value and made significant intellectual contributions to the eBay marketplace. It would be impossible to list them here. With respect to recent changes, the position paper we published last June (which you can find on our website along with our other publications) outlines the spirit of many of the changes that are beginning to roll out on to the eBay marketplace, starting with simple rudimentery things like free gallery, etc. The key, however is to work on initiatives before they are introduced and as they are introduced. Through our community conference call and other initiatives that PESA has taken upon itself we are attempting to help execute a better eBay. Understanding them and planning for them, of course, is another matter, but we’ll do what we can.
——-
Hello Patricia 1,
YOUR QUOTE: “…I don’t see where they are listening to anyone - certainly not sellers - not even Pesa. The decisions they are making are those of people who never sold a thing…probably never even bought a thing off their own site…”
The difference between eBay and other marketplaces like Amazon, Google, Overstock, etc is that many of these other entities are driven by their founders and their founding visions. That is an important distinction, a critical one but not necessarily a fatal one. eBay stills retains an enormous competitive advantage, a unique competitive differentiator. That advantage is social ecommerce in a form unlike anywhere else. It’s not important that eBay executives don’t know sell anything. It doesn’t help, but it doesn’t matter as long as they –partner– with those who do sell to the extent that their goals are aligned. In which case, stock price will then take care of itself.
Regards,
Joe Cortese
JJHOn 04.19.2008 at 6:54 am Said:
“I see a company who wants an operation like Amazon only because amazon is very profitable.”
Like ebaY’s not profitable? You think they’d leave it alone.
JoyOn 04.19.2008 at 7:23 am Said:
Here are Great Examples of how fair DSR’s Are: I questioned Three People after my stars were dinged FOR NO GOOD REASON. First Reposnse: I had a Migraine and that is why I left you a low score, your service was perfect. Second Response: I Loved everything about the transaction BUT I am Japanese and I got confused with the LEFT to RIGHT thing and I am disgraced. Third Response: I was thrilled with the whole transaction but ebay says you should not leave a 5…… Thank You for the very well thoughtout system. I hope in your life you have someone RATE YOU in this manner.
Patricia 1On 04.19.2008 at 11:12 am Said:
Yeah…they listened. I hope they stop listening if this is the outcome. Here’s the cost of a recent sale of one of my paintings. As I’ve stated before we, in the arts categories are almost forced to feature our auctions in order to be seen at all or - with the most pristine record, your auction will start and end around the 45th page out of many thousands of other auctions. Generally, an artist will FP a couple auctions each week to help bring traffic to his other offerings. There has to be a better way for artwork to be listed and shown on ebay but since this is lucrative for them…well….”let them eat cake”
Tale of the Tape
Feature Plus Fee - 14.95
Gallery Plus Fee - .35
Insertion Fee - 2.00
Reserve Price Fee - 2.00
Final Value Fee - 4.64
Total Fees - 23.94
Paypal. - 4.59
(then because I’m charging $15.00 for priority shipping and insurance- the painting is 16 X 20″ and is canvas on a heavy wooden frame - I get a threatening red sign pop up on my listing form!) I would curse here but I know its not allowed so just imagine the curses - times thousands for all sellers in the same boat!
The painting sold for the 95.00 reserve. It contained approximately 15.95 in materials (canvas, paint, varnish, etc.) and about 8 or 9 hours of work.
About the only “partner” getting rich in this situation is the one “listening” and making all the rules!
The answer is very simple for ebay, their attitude is “take it or leave it!” As a seller, I don’t have to put my artwork on ebay - but I do if I want it sold and ebay knows it. I am hoping that someday they may have to eat that attitude! In fact thousands of sellers are hoping the same thing…this is the “community” ebay has disillusioned to the point of frustration.
Patricia 1On 04.19.2008 at 11:53 am Said:
Sorry - I meant to post the above on Mr. Donahoe’s thread. Can it be moved over to there?
Patricia 1On 04.19.2008 at 12:59 pm Said:
To add to my post on the painting:
Shipment Details [ Edit Shipment Details ]
Carrier: U.S. Postal Service
Service Type: Priority Mail® (2-3 days)
Package Size: Package/Thick Envelope
Dimensions: 25 x 20 x 3 in.
Actual Weight: 4 lbs.0 oz.
Mailing Date: Apr. 19, 2008
Display Postage Value on Label: No
Signature Confirmation: No
Purchase USPS®
Insurance: Yes
Insured Value: $95.00 USD
Shipping Rate
Package Cost: $13.45 USD
Delivery Confirmation: Free
Insurance Cost: $2.05 USD
——————————————————————————–
Total Shipping Cost: $15.50 USD
——————————————————————————–
Source of Funds
PayPal Balance: $15.50 USD
As you can see, I ate .50 cents on the shipping. This is the norm since I like to put a flat shipping fee in my listing with insurance included. How dare ebay give me a red warning sign and say my shipping looks a bit high!!! Where do they get off throwing their weight around at reputable sellers because they cannot or will not police the bad sellers! If the day ever comes where my buyers see such a sign on my listings (as seems to be being tossed about by ebay) that’s the day I quit! I double dare Mr. Donahoe to answer that “noise” and answer it directly and not thru ebay-speak! I want to know his reasoning for the lack or respect and the downright bashing being handed out to sellers since he took office. As a 10 year seller, I feel I have at least that much right to know what his reasoning is.
Patricia 1On 04.19.2008 at 1:43 pm Said:
“The difference between eBay and other marketplaces like Amazon, Google, Overstock, etc is that many of these other entities are driven by their founders and their founding visions. That is an important distinction, a critical one but not necessarily a fatal one. eBay stills retains an enormous competitive advantage, a unique competitive differentiator. That advantage is social ecommerce in a form unlike anywhere else. It’s not important that eBay executives don’t know sell anything. It doesn’t help, but it doesn’t matter as long as they –partner– with those who do sell to the extent that their goals are aligned. In which case, stock price will then take care of itself.”
Yes….the old take it or leave it approach. I think what they are finding out (though they’d rather die first then admit it) is that the gap between a seller’s expenditures and profit is closing fast for ALL sellers. I’m not talking about the seller who just dragged some bit of junk out of their basement and threw it up on ebay for sale….those are not the tried and true sellers who will list constantly. More and more of the constant listing sellers are leaving - because they cannot make a decent profit. No matter how much traffic ebay has and no matter how large the sell thru rate ebay continues to chip away at seller profit and burden them with unreasonable rules. At some point the dam has to break and the seller says “hey, I can’t do this anymore - its just not worthwhile”.
LurchOn 04.19.2008 at 5:18 pm Said:
Davey and “Nobel Joe” - I hope you saw (or see) my lengthy comment on the John Donahoe entry. Maybe rather than trying to provide constructive ideas to deaf ears for many years, I should have been chanting things like sellers just need to “communicate, communicate, communicate” in order to get eBay to listen to me. I mean - what would I know, anyway. Right?
And Noble Joe - keep in mind, I would only need **a couple of more buyers to rate my descriptions as accurate to be considered by eBay to be in the bottom 25% of all sellers.** OK - sure. I’ll educate buyers about that. Can you guarantee buyers will believe me over eBay? And if they do, doesn’t that further damage the company?
Why - tell me why - that should be my responsibility, not eBay’s.
And that’s there definition of a poor seller? Someone who’s descriptions are accurate? What message does THAT send?
spinach.chinOn 04.19.2008 at 5:47 pm Said:
@noblespirit
“the position paper we published last June (which you can find on our website along with our other publications) outlines the spirit of many of the changes that are beginning to roll out on to the eBay marketplace, starting with simple rudimentery things like free gallery, etc. ”
———————
No offense, but the above quote is akin to claiming that gas prices will rise substantially this summer, and then taking credit for it when it happens. That was a change that was long rumored and EVERYONE was clamoring for, not just PESA members.
CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 04.19.2008 at 9:19 pm Said:
@ Noblespirit
Quote: “They search us out by brand name, because they know what to expect form us in terms of product, service and reliability. Our reputation stands for something.”
The problem with proposing such a idea as a solution to users of eBay is that it leaves out a considerable segment of the eBay selling population, the ones eBay was created for in the first place - the part-time, hobby seller and average joe.
Business Week had an interview with Pierre Omidyar back in December 2001 where the origins and principles eBay was founded on were discussed. Here is a link to the article:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_49/b3760605.htm
Reading through it I noticed quickly how much eBay has abandoned the principles and ideals which made it so attractive to the average person. Omidyar actually listened to the suggestions of users and made changes accordingly. He actually encouraged buyers to be patience, reminding them:
“I would say, “Put yourself in the other person’s shoes, maybe they don’t turn on their computer every day. Don’t jump to negative conclusions, maybe there’s a reasonable explanation.” In almost all cases, eventually I would get back an e-mail saying, “Oh, you were right, everything’s fine.”
Now eBay expects every seller to perform like a professional online seller. That isn’t what ebay was created for, and just because I happen to be a professional seller, does not mean that I want eBay to evolve into a venue just for professional sellers.
I’m lucky that my items are ones that I can sell elsewhere on the internet, but many people sell on eBay simply to clean out their closets - like a virtual garage sale. That is exactly the type of person eBay was created for. Now, with the fee increases, these users will actually end up paying eBay more money in fees than they will get for selling their items. Furthermore, they may even have their funds held or account suspended if they come across an unreasonable buyer - the very type of buyer that the recent changes will create and encourage.
Quote: “Sellers are getting a better price for the exact same product anywhere other than eBay. That tells me it’s more than just a marketplace trust issue. The entire balance is wrong, sellers are constrained and disadvantaged.”
If the product is the same and the type of seller reputation is the same on both venues, yet a seller can sell an item for more on one venue then the other, how is it more than just the reputation of the marketplace? What is the other variable that creates this difference, other than the reputation of the venue?
When I say that I can sell my items for more elsewhere, I am not even comparing fees, I’m just comparing what I can charge for the item itself. For instance, I can successfully sell one of my items for $10.00 on my other venue (only $0.50 under retail), but if I was to try and sell the very same item on eBay successfully, I would have to discount it by more than 50% just to draw interest from eBay buyers. The only difference is that eBay is an environment designed for buyers looking for a great bargain price. The only way to achieve such a bargain is to buy from someone who is not necessarily selling for a living. If you sell for a living, you’ll do so where you can make the most profit, which for me is not eBay.
Quote: “I advise you don’t try to do it alone.”
If it is truely eBay’s intention that this blog is to be used as a conduit of communication between eBay users and eBay management, then I believe my opinions stated here will have just as much impact as if I were to pay money to attend a conference where the only difference would be that I would be voicing them in person.
I do not believe the average joe, who uses eBay occasionally to sell, or the part-time hobby seller who uses eBay to pay for the family’s annual vacation, will be in attendance either. Yet their voices and concerns need to be heard and addressed just like professional sellers.
I do not want the eBay of old to be demolished, simply to cater especially to professional sellers like me. I think there is room for both, but the route eBay is currently taking with will result in the loss of types of sellers.
CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 04.19.2008 at 9:22 pm Said:
It seems to me that people go to eBay to get a bargain, but they shop elsewhere when they expect to pay close to retail price for a new item. The prime reason is that if a person is going to spend that much money, then they want to be sure that they are dealing with a professional seller - something they can not be assured of on eBay. Seeing this, eBay believes if they can force all sellers (including average joe, hobby, and part-time ones) to act like professional sellers (both in shipping cost and communication) then they can attract these type of buyers too.
Yet once again the problem lays all with eBay’s reputation. It was not designed for or marketed for professional sellers. Its traffic volume does not come from items that can be found on a hundred different places on the web. Their popularity comes from the one of a kind items like the grilled cheese Virgin Mary, collectibles, antiques, and out of production items.
The solution is not for eBay to make all sellers act and operate the same. The solution is for eBay to celebrate and embrace the diversity of their sellers by setting selling requirements and buyers expectations to be in line with each particular seller’s abilities. eBay should not hold the average joe to that same standards as part-time sellers, nor should it hold part-time sellers to the same standards as professional sellers. eBay needs to create different tiers of seller standards. It needs to make buyers aware of what level each seller is at so that buyers can make an informed decision of if they wish to buy from a seller who is held to higher standards, or would they rather deal with the average joe.
The DSRs do not accomplish this as they hold all sellers to the same standards and worse yet, punishments for not achieving such standards. The Power Seller program does not accomplish this because its membership is based on sales volume and sales price - neither of which is an indication that a seller operates professionally.
NoblespiritOn 04.20.2008 at 4:14 pm Said:
Hello Lurch,
Thank you for pointing out your post there. I will be travelling to the Summit for the rest of the week. However, I would love to have a look and comment.
—
Hello crunchypostinggoodness,
You make some great points. The depth and breath of eBay’s diverse buyer and seller base demand category specific attention. The very scope of the marketplace insists that any ‘one size fits all’ model is insufficient to meet the needs of such a broad spectrum of users. That single aspect has been the fatal flaw in many of eBay’s attempts to execute a variety of initiatives, policies and functionality.
The flora of eBay sellers is a thing of beauty that should be preserved. Yes, the definition of a reputable seller should not be a single dimensioned idea. However, in as much as there is a transactional trade relation between buyer and seller where any sort of funds are exchanged for a product or service, a casual seller should not enjoy any greater relief from duty bound obligation to perform. I believe in latitude as long as it is framed within the bounds of the same responsbility all sellers are expected to adhere to. Good sellers can no longer subsidize bad sellers.
Yes, eBay does need to make further investments in its core business to better understand the needs of its categories and where the boundaries and responsibilities lie.
Regards,
Joe Cortese
MechelleOn 04.20.2008 at 6:56 pm Said:
this is just something I find interesting concerning sellers leaving feedback first which is recommended by eBay.
How a buyer can get a unpaid strike removed
Proof that the seller left you positive feedback for the transaction – If the seller left you positive feedback, send eBay an email including the item number so that we can verify the feedback.
Some sellers might just start throwing the positives out when the item is committed to, and not wait for payment. Of course anyone with experience wouldn’t, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the newer sellers consider eBay’s recommendation of leaving the buyer feedback first to mean just leave it when the commitment is made. Really the concept of not paying always seems to take the newer seller by surprise as it is.
I don’t know I think eBay just might benefit from this one also.
BrendaOn 04.21.2008 at 7:02 am Said:
Mechelle
I understand that the sellers are not employess but they are still representatives of Ebay.
What is sadly lacking within the overall site is consistancy.
What is sadly lacking within the overall site is common sense.
What is very sadly lacking within the overall site is viable customer service for all levels of users.
A seller with 1,000’s of feedback will lose little with one bad feedback.
I have read the AC extensively and find a little too much self righteousness on the part of the sellers.
Don’t get me wrong; the upper tiers of Ebay seem to suffer from the same lack of real communication skills. Maybe it’s a common factor that drew you all to internet venues in the first place.
I am not logged in; yet can read this blog and post to my hearts content. I question the wisdom of allowing this much angst to be spewed forth into the world.
I am also spending much less time floating thru Ebay. The more I see the more I realize that nothing is really changing, just a slightly different spin and another opportunity to vent.
It is Ebay’s responsibility to instill trust into me, not the other way around. Sellers may not be obligated to help police the site, but as Dr. Phil is fond of saying, ” How’s it working for you? “
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