Friday, April 11th, 2008
PeSA / ECMTA Best Practices “Improving Your eBay DSRs”
I realize I run the risk of turning this blog into a Marketplaces-only forum rather than an all-encompassing discussion hub for all things “Inc”, but I am joining Lorrie Norrington and the team down at the 2008 Spring eCommerce Summit in New Orleans later this month so I thought it would be a good idea for me to sit in on the PeSA / ECMTA Best Practices conference call yesterday afternoon. The topic of discussion was “Improving Your eBay DSR” and the call was hosted by Brandon Dupsky, managing director of eCommerce Markets for the E-Commerce Merchants Trade Association (ECMTA).
The call was interesting in that it didn’t focus on the perceived benefits or drawbacks to the Detailed Seller Rating (DSR) system, rather it focused on the challenges sellers face with DSRs and how to implement some best practices around that. It seemed to go beyond DSR 101 (one participant at the end of the call indicated that she found it one of the more worthwhile roundtable calls she had attended).
After Brandon provided a brief overview of what DSRs are and why they’re important he jumped into the meat of the presentation. He cited three key challenges that sellers face with DSRs:
1. Mixed messages from eBay. There is a message to buyers that states that 4.0 should be applied to an experience in which there was an “accurate” description; they were “satisfied” with communication; shipping was “quick” and S&H was “reasonable”. However, the message to the seller is that 4.0 means you can’t qualify for PowerSeller status; you don’t get good seller status; you could drop down into the bottom 1% in your category and receive seller restrictions.
2. A mixed usage of whole numbers and fractions with regard to scores. In other words, a buyer can only leave a 1, 2,3 4, or 5 feedback score and as a result, sellers are “being punished” with fractional scores of 4.0, 4.4, 4.6, 4.8.
3. Good DSR scores have less of an impact on sellers than bad DSR scores. A single 5-star DSR will not help the overall average as much as a single 1-star DSR will hurt the overall average.
The proceeding ways in which it was suggested sellers could ensure that they get the best DSRs possible all had an underlying theme. Educating the buyer with impeccable messaging and setting their expectations from the beginning seemed to be the biggest call to action to sellers (which echoed a Chatter Blog post back in February). Based on presentations and discussions I’ve seen and heard internally, that seems to be the call to action for the Marketplaces team too. Yes, the changes we’ve seen come out over the past few months are focused on providing the best overall experience for the buyer on eBay but it is the education and the ability to meet and beat the expectations of the buyer that will result in optimal DSRs.
There were a number of simple tricks and tools discussed on the call. For example, emphasizing 5-Star service in every step of communication to the buyer or potential buyer. Another was setting expectations and then beating them (whether it be regarding shipping cost, time or description of item).
The number one question that seemed to be asked throughout the presentation was “What are you doing to keep your customer happy?”
For those of you still on the fence about attending the conference later this month, the ECMTA has put together this handy-dandy Top 10 Reasons to attend. If you are heading down there, feel free to email me because I’d love to take the opportunity to meet as many people as I can in person.
Cheers,
RBH
Tagged: best practices, brandon+dupsky, chatter, chatter blog, dsr, ebay, ecmta, ecommerce, lorrie+norrington, marketplaces, pesa, rating, trade show
DaveyOn 04.11.2008 at 3:17 pm Said:
I really don’t lurk to be one of the first to post, but…
After the world’s worst customer service, DSRs are my #2 beef, with Shipping-related DSRs at the top of the list. Questions I would ask are:
o Why am I left to educate my buyers about eBay’s semantic double-standard and marketplace-imposed hurdles? Isn’t this taking my time away from essential communications and relationship-building with my buyers? How does this double standard make eBaY look to buyers after sellers educate them?
o How does one reconcile catch-22’s in the shipping arena? Specifically, you can get fast or inexpensive, but not both?
o Why would someone giving free shipping not automatically get a 5 for shipping cost?
o What about things horribly out of a cross-border seller’s control, like Customs and transit delays?
o How is the current scheme anywhere near objective, given human nature? The buyer has a bad day and I get a 4 instead of a 5…
o Isn’t there a better way of handling Shipping Time evaluation, such as logging the time between confirmed payment and acceptance by the shipper? Why was this not implemented, as the data already exists?
o Isn’t the grading data eBay is using faulty? Perhaps it really says that eBay sellers were actually doing way above the norm in most of the categories to start out with, but eBay had to cast some as failures, sort of like having a roomful of Nobel laurates and calling the bottom 50 percentile IQ’s idiots?
I know sellers now have to struggle harder than ever. But, I don’t feel it should be because the venue can’t shoot straight or think out implications of their policies beforehand.
In summary, what recently happened to me as a seller:
o Got a 50 percent fee increase, overall, with no new services to show for it
o I get punished for being the equivalent of an “A” rather than “A+” student, and only two of the factors used are really in my control
o I just had my only remaining fraud protection “system” taken away (honest feedback)
These seminars may teach how to squeeze the last drops of blood out of a turnip in the hope you can get some nutrition out of it, but I’d rather not be handed pre-squeezed turnips in the first place…
DaveyOn 04.11.2008 at 3:31 pm Said:
Oh, comments on setting expectations and beating them:
o If I have to beat the expectation on my item description, doesn’t that drive my initial description to be less than accurate so the goods exceed it? Shouldn’t the expectation be that the item exactly matches the description (which would be a DSR of 3 - 4)?
o How the heck can I set an expectation of the shipping time unless I say FedEx 2-day and pay for FedEx Overnight instead? This expectation is a huge joke, as you have almost no control over it as a seller even if you ship same or next day! Or, you can set the bar really low while fighting the eBay shipping calculator which tells buyers the opposite.
Exceeding Communication expectations is about all a seller can do well, reliably. No surprise that most sellers are at a 4.8 or 4.9 DSR here! The areas of hurt are all in Shipping, it seems.
LurchOn 04.11.2008 at 3:32 pm Said:
Um - it sounds like you could have just had that conference call with me. Of course, I would have also brought up the fact that you are utilizing overall percentages of all users to determine the fact that a 4.8 is sort of just ok, and really kind of cruddy (a 4.8!) on item description, but that is based on factoring in brand new items and collectable - well, I already covered this elsewhere.
This took a conference call to figure out? This was news to anyone involved in this call?
DaveyOn 04.11.2008 at 3:40 pm Said:
Did any other eBay management sit in on this call?
If so, what did they think of this theme that you said came up repeatedly:
“What are you doing to keep your customer happy?”
As a seller and therfore eBay’s customer, I’m curious…
LurchOn 04.11.2008 at 3:43 pm Said:
And I don’t mean new collectable - I meant vintage/antique type stuff.
DaveyOn 04.11.2008 at 3:48 pm Said:
@Richard,
I’m about worn out here, and can’t keep beating the same themes over and over again, so I think I may fade back for awhile. At least until your customer service thread. I talked to one rep offline last night, and he had some real interesting philosophical comments on why eBay CS was so poor.
Sorry if the bulletizing I used doesn’t work out. I figured this was better than 10 simpler single-topic posts. If there is any vindictiveness afoot, it may be to vindicate what you are doing here, if it forms a communication vehicle into eBay’s corporate noggin.
I promise I won’t go ad-hominem on anyone here, including yourself.
Thanks for your efforts. Like getting a drink through a firehose, isn’t it?
MsFish213On 04.11.2008 at 4:30 pm Said:
With the DSR’s, BM, sellers having to “educate” their buyers (Now they are OUR customers again),feedback changes,and more, its getting very hard to sell. It has turned into a situation where ebay says “JUMP” and we are supposed to say “HOW HIGH”. Is it really worth it? Not so much, I think.
Patricia 1On 04.11.2008 at 4:56 pm Said:
Ebay is playing totally unfair with the star system. If they are bent on having it at all it needs to be explained to the buyer and not just leave the seller hanging. If I didn’t know any better I would think 4.0 was about right for a transaction where everything went as it should. If the seller put a nice note in with the package or did something above and beyond normal service then I would give a 5.0. I’m sure MOST buyers are thinking the same way, especially when ebay says 4.0 is a satisfactory mark to give and then turns right around a beats the seller with it! If they are intent on instituting these systems that nobody seems to want they should at least play fair with them. That’s about as strongly as I can say it while biting my tongue. I won’t even comment on the shipping time star 
Kevin_TOn 04.11.2008 at 8:19 pm Said:
Davey mentions:
“Why would someone giving free shipping not automatically get a 5 for shipping cost?”
===
I ship internationally and after an initial DSR rating of 4.8, I maintain a DSR rating of 4.9 for Shipping and handling charges, in spite of the SYI form warning me that my shipping charges are high for some of the categories that I list in.
I have several times done a search for free shipping, checked the feedback to look at DSR ratings, and check that the seller is offering free shipping on either all or most items that they sell. Incredibly, some who offer free shipping have DSR ratings of 4.8 and even 4.6 for Shipping and handling charges. Without looking into any other aspect of DSR’s this simple test renders them seriously flawed and leaves them totally meaningless to my eye. Meanwhile the way that auctions are sorted in the “best match” search default are partly based on these flawed ratings, and incredibly recent reports (quoted on Tamebay) suggest that a rise in these meaningless figures are helping Ebay’s share price in the stockmarket.
Ebay has based too much on a faux feedback rating which is subjective at best, and can affect the business of a seller on the whims of a malicious or indifferent buyer. I don’t know what the correct method of effective feedback should be, but I don’t believe that the DSR system is it.
Kind Regards, Kevin
Scott @ TradingAssistantJournalOn 04.11.2008 at 9:34 pm Said:
Richard - Have a great weekend!
I too was in on the PESA ECMTA conference call and we streamed the call on Dave White’s eBay & Beyond - Internet Auction News Radio live feed for those members and non PESA ECMTA who could not call in.
I took extensive notes from the call and found it to be informative and interesting.
If you or anyone else here would like to read my notes on the call and DSR’s they can be found here:
PESA ECMTA DSR’s Conference Call - Final Analysis - What Sellers Should Know
http://allbusinessauctions.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/google-pesa-ecmta-dsrs-conference-call-final-analysis-what-sellers-should-know/
CrunchyPostingGoodnessOn 04.11.2008 at 9:45 pm Said:
“Educating the buyer with impeccable messaging and setting their expectations from the beginning seemed to be the biggest call to action to sellers (which echoed a Chatter Blog post back in February). ”
The main problem I have with this is that eBay made the changes to the evaluating of the DSRs, eBay is the one who is conveying a conflicting message to the buyers and sellers, therefor it should fall on eBay to educate the buyer and not shift the responsibility to the seller.
If a seller was to initiate a specific change in one of their policies, then it would stand to reason that it would be up to the seller to educate any buyers on such a change. However, eBay is transforming itself from “just being a venue” into a regulating agency. If a regulating agency makes a policy change, then the burden to educate its users becomes the agency’s responsibility.
eBay can not continue to take more control and protections away from sellers, yet place all the burden of education and implementation on to the sellers. If eBay wants to take more control and regulate its site more closely, then it must also accept the responsibility to actively educate its users on these changes and the impact such actions will have on both the buyer and the seller.
By refusing to properly educate buyers on the effects of the DSRs, eBay is setting up buyers for a more unpleasant buying experience. After all, who wants to buy in an environment where one does not fully understand the rules?
I have seen countless threads on eBay’s Seller Central where sellers have asked why a particular buyer left them a 3 or 4. The response for the buyer was always along the lines of “eBay said that 3 or 4 is accurate and/or good.” When the seller explained to the buyer the actual effect that the dinged star had on their selling status, the buyer response was mostly apologetic and upset that they had inadvertently hurt a seller who they thought was good.
If I was the buyer in such a case, my anger and disappointment would be directed at eBay for misinforming me of the actual effect my 3 or 4 rating would have on the seller. In essence, I would feel that eBay lied to me. That hurts my trust in eBay as a reliable buying venue.
eBay stated when they rolled out all of these changes that they were going to step up to the plate and take a more active role. Instituting various policy changes is not an indication of an active role - accurate education (on eBay’s part) and enforcement is.
The number one question that eBay needs to ask itself is, “What are we doing to actively educate buyers and sellers on the impacts the recent changes will have on one another, and are we sending the same information to both parties?”
DawnOn 04.11.2008 at 10:14 pm Said:
I have a question about the DSR system that might seem a bit simplistic. As I understand it, eBay designed DSRs to be anonymous so buyers could submit honest opinions without fear of retaliatory feedback. Since sellers will no longer be able to leave less than positive feedback for buyers, what is the reasoning behind continuing to keep DSR ratings anonymous?
We sellers must blindly trust eBay’s calculations of our DSR ratings, which are tied to vital aspects of our operation such as fee discounts and search placement. Yet, as it has been expressed quite clearly here, eBay has proven itself untrustworthy over and over again.
In my opinion, this aspect of the DSR system should be addressed before we even begin to tackle the fact that eBay has created a mess, as evidenced by the “challenges” mentioned in the OP, and has placed the burden of cleaning up that mess squarely on the shoulders of its sellers.
DawnOn 04.11.2008 at 10:53 pm Said:
Richard said:
“nothing like homework going into the weekend”
There’s a small taste of what it’s like to be a professional eBay seller. We don’t get to take weekends off, either. I once ended up with a negative and a non-paying bidder because no one answered the phone at 7:30 on a Saturday morning to take a credit card payment. My return call at 8:00 that same Saturday morning wasn’t good enough.
If I’m awake, I’m working. If you’re going to truly try to understand what it’s like to sell on eBay full-time, you’ll do well to realize that’s the norm for us, and to refrain from making snide remarks about someone asking too many questions on a Friday afternoon.
WII SELLEROn 04.12.2008 at 12:17 am Said:
DSR’s are a joke.
If everyone requires their customers to leave 5’s, and everyone ends up with 4.6 or higher that is only skewing the bell curve even more which will further punish sellers.
Can we get some data on DSR’s on a transactional level (ie take all the transactions then divide that and see what the average DSR is?) I bet your ‘bell curve’ comes out alot different.
I find it funny that ebay/paypal bugs are 50% of my problem transactions and ebay’s lack of customer support is appalling.
If you want S&H lowered, LOWER YOUR FEES EBAY!!
Formerly Known As MarikaBooksOn 04.12.2008 at 6:56 am Said:
Davey, since Richard didn’t see fit to answer your questions, I can answer one of them.
You asked:
“Why am I left to educate my buyers about eBay’s semantic double-standard and marketplace-imposed hurdles?”
Because this is what Ebay has always done - USE those of us who have been around awhile to educate the newbies. Pierre created this climate of members doing Ebay’s job and it has, increasingly, become the norm. On the discussion boards, we answer questions and practically give seminars on how to sell. A buyer experiences a poor transaction; Live Help is NO help so they come to long-time members for help and we give it. And on and on and on.
So of course Ebay is asking (the collective) you to educate buyers. It’s your unpaid job. It’s what we’ve always done. Why should Ebay expect less of you now?
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